Local Pizza

[liam2833]

Almost all of the pizza in my area ( Cleveland, Ohio) seems to have a dough that is not a yeast dough. Looks, smells, and taste like a quick bread.  I was told by one shop owner that is was a " killed yeast dough"! Is this a common practice? It certainly does not taste like real pizza dough? To me it seem like a cheaper and quicker, and less professional way to make pizza. They also pan bake ( crust greasy) all the pizza for 15 to 20 min is a rotating oven, or 10 min.on a conveyor belt oven. It just does not stack up to the pizza I enjoyed in the east coast! What gives, I am wrong in my assumptions, or just too picky about my pizza? Thanks Bill

[atom]

That sounds interesting and I wonder if thats a concept that I have been playing around with in the back of my brain. I have been considering fermenting a dough that has baking soda or powder in it for a long long period of time untill it wont rise in the fridge anymore, then cooking it. Kind of like a standalone sourdough ball. Maybe somebody from the cleveland area knows more about this style.

[liam2833]

I am not sure of the technique they use here, but I don't think there is any yeast in the dough.  The flavor you would get from a yeast dough is missing. It is a hot roll or biscuit flavor. I do not think the dough would behave the same. I miss the traditional bread type yeast dough that is handled well as not to be tough and floury. 

[buceriasdon]

atom, Read here:   http://chemistry.about.com/cs/foodchemistry/f/blbaking.htm
You will see that chemical leavening doesn't work well for an extended ferment, that's not it's purpose.
Don

[liam2833]

Ok, I not sure of your point? The quick bread type dough, with whatever they use as a leavening agent, does not give you the flavor profile of yeast. It is my opinion that anything you use other than yeast does not make a good pizza. Yeast, I think, makes the dough taste better. Quick bread doughs with the other leavening agents make good other things, but not pizza. I just wonder why they use anything other than yeast except for maybe time and cost consideration. The product is different, and to me not as good. I wish the did not substitute for the yeast, and make a better tasting more traditional pizza. Thanks for the food chemistry site. I will check it out.

[buceriasdon]

Bill, I thought I was clearly replying to atom's post. You don't like the local style of pizza, that's fine, make your own pizza to your liking.
Don

[liam2833]

Sorry Don, I did not notice who it was from. I can make my own. Once and great while I would like to buy one.
 I just don't understand why they use the quick bread dough and not the yeast dough. It has no real taste that way! In my area it is the norm, and all the people I know seem to think that it is what pizza taste like. It is a shame! Thanks

[The Dough Doctor]

Bill;
I'm going to guess that what you are seeing is a short or no-time dough. This is a dough made with little fermentation, thus it has little, or no/poor flavor. I'm betting that the "dead yeast" he is talking about is the dead yeast additive (actually glutathione) available from many yeast suppliers, that is used in the same manner as L-cysteine is, that is to impart the soft, extensible handling properties that fermentation imparts to the dough when the fermentation time is short or nonexistent. We typically use this in what are referred to as "emergency doughs". These are doughs that are designed to be ready for use in a very SHORT period of time after mixing, typically, in under an hour. They are used in pizzerias only under extenuating circumstances, such as when they run out of dough, or they come into the store in the morning only to find that the cooler has been down during the night and all of their dough has been lost, so they make emergency doughs during the day to limp by on until they can get back into using their regular dough again. Like you said, it ain't the greatest pizza in town.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

[buceriasdon]

Bill, It may well be a regional style much like Imo's :  http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2009/11/imos-pizza-st-louis-style-mo-provel-cheese.html

[liam2833]

Thank you for the reply. I can see it as you described "in an emergency" but as your only dough seems like cheating to me.  I  also think it is a regional thing. I was just in the east and had some great pizza. I have to settle for making my own.  Thanks again for shedding some light on it for me.

[AimlessRyan]

I am not sure of the technique they use here, but I don't think there is any yeast in the dough.  The flavor you would get from a yeast dough is missing. It is a hot roll or biscuit flavor. I do not think the dough would behave the same. I miss the traditional bread type yeast dough that is handled well as not to be tough and floury. 

This reminds me of a pizza I ate recently in Columbus, at Hound Dog's. It was probably the worst pizza I've ever had (even though I ate at Hound Dog's once about 15 years ago, and I don't remember it being horrible). The crust was hard and tasteless, and the texture was not like any yeast bread I'd ever had. Since I was with someone I'd met on these boards, I mentioned to him that I thought the pizza was chemically leavened. So he asked our host, who said they use yeast. Anyway, it was barely edible, and the leftovers didn't get eaten.

Although it's hard to find good pizza in Columbus, this pizza was not typical of most Columbus pizza. I hope it's not representative of Cleveland.

[liam2833]

Ryan   Thats it for sure. They all say it is a yeast dough they make every day, but it is not.  Terrible, most pizza in Cleveland seems to be made this way and it is hard if not impossible to find a good pizza. Thanks 

[atom]

atom, Read here:   http://chemistry.about.com/cs/foodchemistry/f/blbaking.htm
You will see that chemical leavening doesn't work well for an extended ferment, that's not it's purpose.
Don

Thanks for the link Don, its amazing what you will learn through these forums.

[weemis]

This reminds me of a pizza I ate recently in Columbus, at Hound Dog's. It was probably the worst pizza I've ever had (even though I ate at Hound Dog's once about 15 years ago, and I don't remember it being horrible).

the worst pizza you've ever had? dang, Ryan... you need to have some really bad pizza, my friend. Interestingly, I thought of you and that experience when I first read this post.

[AimlessRyan]

Weemis, you might have to schedule a pizza outing in Cleveland soon. The more I read this thread, the more I want to experience what liam2833 is talking about.