Author Topic: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.  (Read 68138 times)

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Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #100 on: November 03, 2013, 12:25:17 PM »
Thanks,

I don't sell them, they are dangerous  :P


Yesterday's pie


Caputo pizzeria 70% hydration
 18h in bulk @65F and 6hours in balls

I've put a K probe inside the dome to monitor the air temp while baking, I was very happy even with the hight hydration the temperature don't drop quickly.
pie put in with the stone at 460C air temp around 500 after 90 seconds the air temp drop to 390-400C


preheating time for the air inside the dome to reach the temperature:

400C  10min33'  -  450C 13min09' -  500C 16min08' - 550  19min25'


Offline misterschu

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #101 on: November 08, 2013, 09:36:35 AM »
I'm currently modding my Newwave stone bake pizza oven from walmart.  for the additional heat I ordered a similar model made by Welbilt on ebay. 

Question for stonecut, squid, sub:
I'm wondering what causes the elements to cycle on and off.  -- My thermostat is the same as what I've copied below.  (Additional question: Where did that little screw come from?)  In my initial run on the walmart oven, without any modifications, i measured stone temps at 850, however it was clear the top element was shutting off during use, sometimes i'd open the oven and it would be glowing red, other times it would be dull gray.    Stonecut - From one of your posts it seems that I'll be able to prevent this cycling simply from bending the tab down, which i've done (but not yet reassembled the full oven)

My current plan for the heating element mod is to use two elements on the top and two elements in the bottom, each set controlled by its own thermostat.  Hopefully this will let me sufficiently control stone temps and dome temps and get high enough dome temps.

Once I've reassembled at this point I'll reassess whether I think the reflector and deflector mods are necessary.  Since the walmart oven elements were both the type with the V bent in to them and the welbilt were both O shaped, I'm thinking of using one of each on top and bottom.

Thanks in advance for the help.

« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 09:41:42 AM by misterschu »

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #102 on: November 08, 2013, 10:19:46 AM »
Hi misterschu,

I didn't actually bend anything, I initially grinded (ground?) mine thinner.

The thermostat controls the on/off cycle of the oven based on its own (the thermostat'ss) temperature. Oven getting 'too' hot -> turn heating elements off. Oven has cooled down again -> turn heating elements back on. It's a breaker for the electrical circuit. That's why you see the heating elements cycle. For pizza baking you want it to be on.

Anyway, the little screw and white pin go inside the screw on top of the thermostat. The small screw is supposed to push the white pin down thereby pre-bending one of the contacts below causing the switch to 'off' position to occur at a later point (when the thermostat is hotter).

You probably adjusted it too heavily so it fell out.

The thermostat is just an/off switch and works with a bi-metal. Once it reaches a certain temp it bends so that the oven does not get any more electric contact.

Maybe the two attached imges help.

Your plan with the two thermostats is likely not going to work - the thermostats don't measure the temperature of the heating elements but the temp right where they are located, so if you put both in the same place then they will more or less turn off at the same time, too. It's a pretty basic/simple/stupid setup the way it's designed.

Depending on how your device is wired (for example both heating elements in series) they will both shut off at the same time anyway, no matter what.

IMHO, a second heating element on the bottom is not needed. The bottom heat is plenty, just top heat needs more power. In the end you will likely need to find a different solution than the thermostats, though. What I did is electrically not safe so I won't detail it. Let's just say that my oven has no more thermostat. That comes with a price, though - you will constantly need to monitor the oven or it will melt (at least the plastic and the wiring). A big fire hazard! You will also need high heat resistant wiring if you want to use double heating elements (and a whole shebang of other parts).

As for a possible setup: put one (or if you insist two) V-type heating elements in the bottom and the circle ones in the top. For neapolitan pizza you want to direct most top heat toward the cornicione. The round ones are better for that. For the bottom, the V-type are better because they produce a more even heat distribution. You will still probably want to use at least the reflector because it redirects the heat behind the heating elements towards the pizza instead of warming up the device case even further. I personally find no use for the deflector because my oven is plenty hot and I see no burning cheese in the center of my pies.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 10:37:31 AM by StoneCut »

Offline misterschu

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #103 on: November 08, 2013, 11:01:14 AM »
Thanks for the response stonecut.  I just found that the thermostat is called a bimetal thermostat.  I understood how it works, just not the name.  thank you for that.  I thought it was a type of thermocouple... which i guess it is, but not to create a voltage difference.  http://www.electrical-forensics.com/BiMetal/Bimetal/DurabrandIronThermostat-LG.jpg  Shows that the bimetal strip is actually the bottom most strip, while i thought it had to do with the curved middle piece (right below "on" and "off" in your pics). 

I can see now why sub's mod uses an external control box and cuts out the thermostats, since controlling their temperature with any accuracy would seem a real hassle.  What are the ICs/knobs he uses?

Is the heating element temperature controllable with just a potentiometer?  Is the whole unit positive/negative agnostic?

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #104 on: November 08, 2013, 11:05:48 AM »
As far as I know, Squid uses voltage regulators/dimmers (watch the max wattage). Can't comment on the rest.

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #105 on: November 08, 2013, 12:08:46 PM »
I can see now why sub's mod uses an external control box and cuts out the thermostats, since controlling their temperature with any accuracy would seem a real hassle.  What are the ICs/knobs he uses?

Is the heating element temperature controllable with just a potentiometer?  Is the whole unit positive/negative agnostic?

Hi,

no thermostat in my oven, no control box.

Squid uses relco controler.

Two heating element under the stone is a bad idea, you need more power above, not below.

Offline misterschu

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #106 on: November 10, 2013, 12:42:39 PM »
Just finished my oven, thanks for your help guys!  I did end up doing just one element on the bottom.  I currently have one V and one O element in the top, but I do have an extra O element, to replace the V with, if I think that might improve things after testing.   Ran into a couple snags with shorting on the way but figured it out in the end.  I'm using the out-of-the-box thermostats right now, while I wait for the voltage regulators I ordered to arrive.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-110V-3000W-SCR-110VAC-Voltage-Regulator-Speed-Governor-Thermostat-Dimming-/370921570130?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item565ca5ff52

I'll whip up a batch of dough soon and cook some pies later this week.  I'll post photos when I do.

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #107 on: November 10, 2013, 01:34:23 PM »
Looks good! Be sure to check your wiring after a couple of uses, though... Mine were almost black and the connectors brittle. Had to buy some high-temp parts to replace them.

Offline misterschu

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #108 on: November 13, 2013, 11:09:29 AM »
I made a batch of dough last night and plan to cook it on Friday.  A couple preliminary questions to hopefully get me in working order more quickly, since I'll only have 5 pies to play with.

Sub, is your oven simply on or off?  No controls for the power to the heating elements?  My worry at the moment is that my stone will get too hot and burn the bottom of the pie.  How do you manage the heat there?

Stonecut, same question for you.  How do you keep the stone from overheating?

Any other tips on managing the heat, your approximate warm up times? Do you manually cycle the power on and off?

Thanks

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #109 on: November 13, 2013, 11:25:39 AM »
We both use an IR thermometer to keep the stone in check. 420C is the best temp for my oven, it reaches it after approx. 9 minutes.


Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #110 on: November 13, 2013, 11:30:01 AM »
Hi misterschu,

Yes my oven is only on/off, I let it preheat 12 minutes to get the stone around 850F and I start baking, when the first pie is cooked I put the topping on the second one, I check the temperature of the stone with my IR gun.

With a single heating element, put the thermostat on 3 1/2 and let the oven preheat 15 minutes more or less, the stone should be at 720

My advice is buy an Ir gun, it's 15 bucks very well spend.

Good luck.

Offline misterschu

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #111 on: November 13, 2013, 02:18:35 PM »
Gotcha, very manual process.  I'm using separate thermostats on the bottom and top so I'll probably have to find my own timings.  Already have an IR gun that I use with my (small, lousy, homemade) WFO.  Thanks for the responses.  I'll post pictures and my experience once I have them.

Offline Tampa

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #112 on: November 14, 2013, 09:13:30 AM »
Hi misterschu,

Yes my oven is only on/off, I let it preheat 12 minutes to get the stone around 850F and I start baking, when the first pie is cooked I put the topping on the second one, I check the temperature of the stone with my IR gun.

With a single heating element, put the thermostat on 3 1/2 and let the oven preheat 15 minutes more or less, the stone should be at 720

My advice is buy an Ir gun, it's 15 bucks very well spend.

Good luck.
Sorry guys, I'm late to the party.  Sub - those mods rock!
Dave

Offline misterschu

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #113 on: November 15, 2013, 08:21:21 PM »
Well, just cooked. Disappointed :-\  Didn't let the floor get hot enough on either pie. Especially the second was pale on the bottom. I'm definitely going to swap out the Top V element for my spare O, the dark spot on the one pie was from the bend of the V element.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 09:10:32 PM by misterschu »

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #114 on: November 16, 2013, 04:48:11 AM »
Yes I'll be better and try to put an aluminium pie pan in the dome like me.

Sorry guys, I'm late to the party.  Sub - those mods rock!
Dave

Thanks Dave !

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #115 on: November 17, 2013, 08:50:13 AM »
New mod to try

0.4in refractory stone in the center of the reflector to add a litle thermal inertia.

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #116 on: November 17, 2013, 08:57:03 AM »
Interesting, have you tried it yet?

I haven't found a use for central deflector, my cheese doesn't get burned in the middle and the corniccione gets plenty heat with the new heating element.

Offline Don Luigi

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #117 on: November 18, 2013, 03:05:48 AM »
Man, Pizza and these ovens can become quite an obsession,haha...

Just scored this one on german ebay for 40 Euros. Clone of Napoli (by Hit Company) made in 95 but never used before. Superb built quality I must say. It feels really solid compared to my Bestron Oven. I just finished the M1 mod and will bake some Pizza tonight. Unmodified the oven is hard to use (I did the test run). Overcooks the center of the Pizza quite drastically. But I can get the Oven easily up in the 500C region - to clean the stone this can be useful.


Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #118 on: November 18, 2013, 03:56:23 AM »

Indeed  :angel:

You can also remove the stone of your hit company and use the removable one of the Bestron with only one handle to turn the pie without opening the oven.

Interesting, have you tried it yet?

I haven't found a use for central deflector, my cheese doesn't get burned in the middle and the corniccione gets plenty heat with the new heating element.

No

That's mean 1500W s enough power, it's not the case with mine.

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #119 on: November 18, 2013, 04:18:15 AM »
Haha, I also bought an unused Hit Company and another G3ferrari on eBay classifieds Germany. I have a little collection here now ;) The wife thinks I'm crazy...


 

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