Author Topic: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.  (Read 77968 times)

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Offline Iowamcnabb

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #160 on: January 03, 2014, 05:44:14 PM »
Sub, your pies are amazing every time!  Did you cook the shrooms ahead of time or go raw?

Misterchu, are you still using just the the top elements?  I'm thinking about going with just top heat and then insulating under the stone. 


Offline Tampa

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #161 on: January 03, 2014, 05:59:03 PM »
Damn Sub, really nice looking pies.
^^^ You are quite good with joules.
Dave

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #162 on: January 04, 2014, 06:29:55 AM »
Damn Sub, really nice looking pies.  Do you still turn the pie during the bake with your current mods?

Thanks misterschu, yes I am after 40 seconds, I still need to drill a new Stone holder like Vespa72


Sub, your pies are amazing every time!  Did you cook the shrooms ahead of time or go raw?
Thanks Iowamcnabb, I put them raw.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 05:17:01 PM by sub »

Offline dylandylan

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #163 on: January 08, 2014, 01:25:34 PM »
Hi Sub!   I notice you've used both Caputo and Divella flours.  I currently have some Caputo that I'm using which is great, but incredibly expensive to get to New Zealand.  The Divella flours are much easier for me to obtain.  How do you find the Divella quality?  Comparable at all to Caputo?  Or inferior in any way?   I will try for myself at some stage, but I'd be interested in any observations you have.

Dylan

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #164 on: January 08, 2014, 05:28:52 PM »
Hi Dylan,

Same here, I've bought the caputo from an Italian store a bag cost me 62$ with the shipping charges.  :-\

I like  the Divella (maybe more than the Caputo pizzeria) great flour with a good taste you won't be disappointed !  you can look here for more pictures


I'm at the half of my Caputo bag and I don't think I'll order again, the Divella is available in my supermarket in one kilo bag, It's better to use fresh flour so...



Pies of the day


Caputo pizzeria 67% hydration
1500g flour, 1L water, 50g salt, 0.9g fresh yeast
3h autolyse, 18h in bulk 7h in balls

the endive topping was my favorite (blanch in salted water with baking soda, throw in cold water and then cook in the pan with olive oil, garlic and chilies.



« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 06:22:24 PM by sub »

Offline drogus

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #165 on: January 11, 2014, 01:25:31 PM »
Hi,

Thank you all for all the great links, resources and advice. I was just about to buy a "pacman" version of pizza oven, but fortunately I came across this topic. I thought about either trying to find circle version or searching for a different parts. I found a circle type heater as a replacement part for a regular oven (I attached the image). It's 230V, 2200W with a 205mm diameter.

Do you think that it would be suitable for a modified version of napoli express provided I use a controller to not go up to full power? Also, what's a diameter of your heating element? Judging by the images 20cm should be fine, but if you can measure your parts, it would be awesome. The nice thing about the heating element I've found is that it's already rolled so that 2 circles are powered from one input.

My plan at the moment is to:

* buy one of the g3/optimaelectra/whatever else ovens (there is a optima electra with "pacman" heating element available in Poland: http://jakumammy.pl/, so this would be the easiest option)
* remove the thermostat
* replace the heating element on top with a 2200W heater I attached
* plug bottom and top heater to separate controllers
* replace all cables with heat resistant ones and hopefully replace all plastic parts with something more durable
* insert a thermometer in order to control the temperature inside
* buy an IR pistol so I don't have to use aluminium foil
* add a reflector like in other mods
* add a deflector?

Have I omitted anything? Does it sound like a good plan? I'm not sure about a deflector. In one of the posts sub mentioned that with higher power it may not be needed. I'm tempted to try a deflector with a refractory stone in order to keep the temperature more stable.

I totally suck at anything related to electronics/electricity, but my father in law is an electrician, so I'll use his help to not screw this up. Is there anything I should pass to him? I mean: anything that may be not obvious?

Cheers!

UPDATE:

Btw. the heater element I attached is available at about 15EUR in Poland with various characteristics (all I found are 230V and ranging from 2200W to 2800W). If anyone wants a try I can buy and mail it.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 01:31:04 PM by drogus »

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #166 on: January 11, 2014, 02:30:24 PM »
Hi drogus,
2200w is a lot of power. I have a 1500w element in the top which seems to be plenty. I've melted almost every single plastic piece there is in my oven, even the stands have started to melt! And yes, you definitely need ultra high heat resistant wiring and sleeving AND connectors for that type of mod. If you want to regulate power then a pizza oven regulator with probe seems to make sense: http://stores.ebay.co.uk/CaterSparesUK/Pizza-Oven-Spares-/
You will also need to bend your 2200w element so it will fit into the oven (the connectors point the wrong way).
Considering the price of the oven if you buy a new one plus all the extra parts you will need and keeping in mind that you will end up with a pretty dangerously modded device then you might want to consider buying a GGF Micro or Effeuno P134 instead. That's just my opinion. I paid about 50€ for the heat resistant wiring and sleeving alone! I can only run my oven for a maximum of four pizzas before everything gets so hot that I really need to turn it off quickly to avoid further damage. My mod will profuce about 630 Celsius if I am not careful! So if the stands melt and the oven falls down I'm in deep trouble...

Offline drogus

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #167 on: January 11, 2014, 02:51:20 PM »
Quote
Considering the price of the oven if you buy a new one plus all the extra parts you will need and keeping in mind that you will end up with a pretty dangerously modded device

I will first search for used ones - I mentioned the availability of a new device, but the cheaper I can get it the better (considering that it will need a lot of experimenting).

Regarding safety, if I buy a controller and set it to 3/4 of scale, shouldn't the heat element get less power and give less heat?

Quote
I paid about 50€ for the heat resistant wiring and sleeving alone!

Ouch, I haven't calculated that, I thought it will be cheaper. I guess I'll just wait for a used device on ebay or other online auctions to lower the overal price.

Quote
you might want to consider buying a GGF Micro or Effeuno P134 instead.

I will check that out, but the question is: will one of this devices allow me to come close to neapolitan style pizza from wood oven?

UPDATE:

There are also similar heating elements with lower powers, like 1500W: http://north.pl/karta/grzalka-termoobiegu-1500w-piekarnika-electrolux-8996619124556,729-YK-0318.html, so I guess that won't be a problem.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 03:22:00 PM by drogus »

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #168 on: January 11, 2014, 03:15:34 PM »
I will check that out, but the question is: will one of this devices allow me to come close to neapolitan style pizza from wood oven?

The P134H is a more durable option, but it cost around 400€ with the shipping !
And you'll have to raise the stone few centimeters and maybe bypass the thermostat if you want to get close to a Neapolitan pie.

Offline drogus

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #169 on: January 11, 2014, 03:20:52 PM »
2 more questions:

Quote
My mod will profuce about 630 Celsius if I am not careful! So if the stands melt and the oven falls down I'm in deep trouble...

Are the plastic parts and wiring the only problem with heat? I'm pretty good at working with metal, so I'm pretty sure that I can replace all of the elements with alternatives (stands, handles etc. doesn't look like hard to replace).

Also, do you think that having a controller can help with keeping the temperature at a steady level? I was thinking that if the temperature goes up too much and I disable the top heater or at least lower its' power, the temperature will go down and this should allow to use it longer (not that I want to make gazillions of pizzas with it, I usually make up to 4 pizzas anyway, but it's good to know the limits)

Quote
The P134H is a more durable option, but it cost around 400€ with the shipping !

That's pretty expensive. I could buy it at some point, but for experimenting I would prefer a cheaper option. Another advantage of g3 or similar device is the size.


Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #170 on: January 11, 2014, 03:28:26 PM »
You will also need to bend your 2200w element so it will fit into the oven (the connectors point the wrong way).

And I don't know if you can bend those? Isn't there a solid wire running inside of the element and the outside is some sort of brittle ceramic?
Will it effect performance when you are left with material cracked away/missing at the point where you make the bend?
Thanks!

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #171 on: January 11, 2014, 03:39:51 PM »
You should be ok is the oven is insulated with ceramic / fiberglass wool, only the aluminium foil Dishes need to be changed from time to time.

It's easy to remplace the front foot and the handle.

I've also made two aluminium feet but i still don't have put them.

From the comments of Stonecut the controller should be a good idea for an heating element above 1200W.

I've seen  cheap 2000W power regulator on ebay
I don't know if they can do the job, I'm not good with electricity either.

try ebay.de for cheap ovens

« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 05:37:11 PM by sub »

Offline sub

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Offline drogus

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #173 on: January 12, 2014, 06:31:34 AM »
Quote
You should be ok is the oven is insulated with ceramic / fiberglass wool, only the aluminium foil Dishes need to be changed from time to time.

Cool. I saw your insulation mod earlier and I really like it, maybe I'll give it a try (although I'll probably go with uninsulated version first to see if it's really a problem for me).


I've also talked with my father in law and he said that using voltage regulator with such heating elements is totally doable, so even if I can't find smaller power heating element, it can be done just as with squid's modified oven where regulators are connected to top and bottom heating elements. He also mentioned that fireproof coating on cables will be nice, but we can additionally insulate cables from main heat source (maybe with fiberglass, like sub mentioned, I haven't researched insulation yet).

I will post updates when I have something working :)

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #174 on: January 12, 2014, 07:20:25 AM »
Hi drogus,

I wasn't talking about my Bestron outer shell, you can insulate the oven with a thin layer of rockwool (1-2cm)  betwen the dome and the outside.

Since the new European safety regulation  EN 60335-2-9:A13/2010 the ovens are now insulated.

The old universal model is the best design for a good insulation, but you need to mod the oven a lot, and I don't think it is so important if you have a powerfull top heating element.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 07:47:55 AM by sub »

Offline drogus

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #175 on: January 14, 2014, 08:32:35 AM »
I have an interesting info for modders looking for a heating element. I've found a company in Poland which can produce various heating elements based on a drawing or a model. I've quickly prepared a sketchup model similar to what is needed for modifying a g3 or similar device: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3ydtiakw095mmzy/8yg8Rb1VrH#/ and asked them about a price.

Today I got an answer. They estimate a price of such a heating element with a power of 1200-1300W for about 20EUR + 6EUR shipping. Here is a screenshot from their catalogue with example heating elements. I will be travelling during a next month, so unfortunately I won't manage to check it out soon, but it looks very promising.

Is there anything I should keep in mind when ordering?

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #176 on: January 14, 2014, 09:24:49 AM »
Hi Drogus,

1500W should be better, I really want more watts in my oven to shorten the baking time a bit and quickly reheat the air inside the oven after you've put the pie in.

One turn coil should be best to avoid burn marks on the crust.

I've measured my heating element diameter:  in: 18.1cm   ext: 19,7cm

A Little larger heating element should be a good idea, look at the irradiation diagram,  if I do 28cm-29cm pies in my oven the exterior of the crust is not colored very well. 

pictures: FraMarko custom built 1000W 25cm heating element and the original 600W round heating element.

Offline drogus

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #177 on: January 14, 2014, 09:50:17 AM »
Thanks for the tips!

Quote
1500W should be better, I really want more watts in my oven to shorten the baking time a bit and quickly reheat the air inside the oven after you've put the pie in.

One turn coil should be best to avoid burn marks on the crust.

The problem is that according to what these guys say, ideally you should not have more than 4W/cm^2 if you use a heating element without any fan (ie. in steady air). They do elements from an 8.2mm diameter "pipe", so even with 25cm 1 turn coil should be about 800W, 2 turn coil 1600W.

Why will a 2 turn coil leave burn marks? Is it because it will be closer to a dough? If that's a reason, maybe I will ask also for a spiral heating element so everything will be roughly on the same level.

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #178 on: January 14, 2014, 10:20:48 AM »
It should be OK, depends of the gap between the two coils I guess, mine are very close

To get you an idea:
I've got 6.8cm between the top dome and the refractory stone, 4.5-4.7cm between the heating element and the refractory stone.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 10:29:34 AM by sub »

Offline drogus

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #179 on: January 14, 2014, 10:52:24 AM »
Great! I will ask about other shapes (like the one you attached) as well. Thanks again for help!


 

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