Author Topic: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.  (Read 142428 times)

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Offline Tampa

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #400 on: April 20, 2014, 08:23:47 AM »
Actually, after thinking about it a bit more - have anyone here done research on aluminium foil in high temperatures? I found two papers[1][2] so far, but while they both claim that aluminium utensils leach aluminium, the method is not applicable to our case - aluminium was used in boiling water. Also, one of the studies say that leached aluminium exceeds daily acceptable dosage, while the other one says otherwise. I guess it will be hard to find any studies which measure aluminium intake when it doesn't touch the food.

[1] http://www.electrochemsci.org/papers/vol6/6010222.pdf
[2] http://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn.public.health/2013/517601/

UPDATE: One thing to note: both studies claim that aluminium can cause Alzheimer, while most sources I can find say that this was believed by scientists in 70s and 80s. Not that it invalidates studies, but I guess it's worth mentioning.

UPDATE2: After much more reading I think that using aluminium foil in the oven should not be dangerous, as the biggest leaching effect was observed with food with high pH. When aluminium foil does not touch food I doubt it can end up in food in big quantities.
I'd err on the safe side.  A wise person wrote me saying keep the foil 1/2" away from a heating element.  In your case, you have two elements in close proximity which would likely increase that margin.  If it were me, I'd find a thin scrap of stainless and pound it into shape.
Dave


Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #401 on: April 20, 2014, 08:57:45 AM »
I was searching a little more and I asked which model of Delizia is and they told me it's the one with the pacman heating elements, although I found it second hand. So I am planning to buy it and to replace the two heating elements for one of 500W, 220V at the bottom and another of 1500W, 220V in the dome. My question is if this heating element could work, I'm a bit doubtful due to its shape.

http://www.tecnirecambio.com/industrial/resistencias_termos_leche/index.asp?idproducto=6454.017.002&idcategoria=200

I also asked which wattage the model you posted me of segundamano.es but they told me it was only 750W and made in Taiwan. It's the cheapest option, do you think the main parts could resist the high temperature the same way as in other chinese models of 1200W?

If you think it is not a good idea, I probably order an optima napoli from Italy (pacman heating element as well) and change the upper heating element for the one you posted from ebay, but it's a more expensive option.
For the heating element from tecnirecambio, it's hard to say from a picture.
If the oven from second Hand is only 750w forget about it.
The optima has a better build quality and you just have to order a 220v 1500w heating element, but ain't cheap when you add up the cost of all parts to do the mod, maybe wait a little and keep looking for an used oven.


Divella pizza

65% hydration
5h in bulk  14h in ball

The problem if your pie is too large or if not well centered on the the stone, it get stuck  >:(




Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #402 on: April 20, 2014, 01:25:49 PM »
5h in bulk  19h in ball

Offline drogus

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #403 on: April 20, 2014, 06:39:58 PM »
I'd err on the safe side.  A wise person wrote me saying keep the foil 1/2" away from a heating element.  In your case, you have two elements in close proximity which would likely increase that margin.

Thanks for suggestion, I think that may be indeed a bit different from smaller heating elements, mine is ~1/4" away from the dome.

If it were me, I'd find a thin scrap of stainless and pound it into shape.

Yeah, this sounds safer. The question is - how well would it behave? I found in some sources that polished stainless steel reflectivity is about 50-60% while aluminium foil is 80-88%. This may be a good experiment, maybe I'll try a few things and see what's the actual difference (although I may throw away pies done with aluminium, just in case). If all fails, I can order another heating element ;)

Offline Tampa

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #404 on: April 21, 2014, 08:42:24 AM »
IMO, another element would be the last thing on my mind - meaning that decision is a long way off.  Safety first. 

Consider that the primary heat is coming directly from the red-hot elements - and you have plenty of those.  The reflectivity is an interesting science calculation, but more important, is how does the oven bake and how does the result look.  Yours is a little different arrangement than some, so make a pie and see what needs tweaking.  Maybe it is just me, but I never get things right on the first build.

Dave
 

Offline drogus

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #405 on: April 21, 2014, 12:10:30 PM »
Consider that the primary heat is coming directly from the red-hot elements - and you have plenty of those.  The reflectivity is an interesting science calculation, but more important, is how does the oven bake and how does the result look.  Yours is a little different arrangement than some, so make a pie and see what needs tweaking.  Maybe it is just me, but I never get things right on the first build.

Sure, that's exactly my plan - experiment and see what goes well and what's not that good idea. In the same time I like to research my options, hence the check on reflectivity of various metals. Anyways, I will try to play with it this week and see how it goes (the only thing that stops me at the moment is the fact that original heating elements are 110V, something I missed earlier).

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #406 on: April 21, 2014, 12:52:19 PM »
I've remplaced my aluminum pan inside the dome a lot of times, It's indispensable in my opinion even with a powerfull heating element, when it loose his reflectivity the baking time are longer.

Stainless steel quickly loose  it's reflectivity with the heat, look the walls of this P134H.

Offline Tampa

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #407 on: April 21, 2014, 12:55:52 PM »
Sure, that's exactly my plan - experiment and see what goes well and what's not that good idea. In the same time I like to research my options, hence the check on reflectivity of various metals. Anyways, I will try to play with it this week and see how it goes (the only thing that stops me at the moment is the fact that original heating elements are 110V, something I missed earlier).
Got it, thanks.  Enjoy the modification journey.

FWIIW, I'm usually a heat seeker like most of the modders on this thread (and on the forum overall).  But when it comes to aluminum foil, I don't understand the risks nearly as well as I understand how easy it is to melt.

Dave

Offline drogus

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #408 on: April 22, 2014, 06:43:39 AM »
If anyone has a problem with wiring 110V, a possible solution could be a voltage regulator, something like that: http://www.ebay.de/itm/2000W-25A-Voltage-Regulator-Pulse-PWM-AC-Motor-Speed-Control-Adjustable-50V-220V-/281147420421?pt=Motoren_Getriebe&hash=item4175b12f05 (I also attach photo in case auction page expires). In my case I have a 1400W/230V heating element for top, but I don't have any 230V heating elements to put under the stone, only 600W/110V. I got a voltage regulator to regulate power of upper heating element and I ordered 2 of these just in case I destroy one or it's faulty or whatever else.

Yesterday I plugged it to 110V heating element and it took 2.6A on the lowest setting, so with 230V as input it should give just about ~600W of power. I'm not sure how will it work in practice, but it looks promising.


Offline drogus

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #409 on: April 22, 2014, 05:25:09 PM »
Although I will start with my original 110V element + voltage regulator, eventually I want to simplify the wiring, so I ordered 600W/230V element for the bottom (price is only 12EUR, so I think it will be way better than searching for used european oven version).

I prepared a scheme for that, maybe it will be useful for someone: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ty1r58kh6smluel/scheme-600.pdf (it's basically almost identical with original elements, the only small difference is that I used 206mm for diameter, my original heating element is a bit smaller).

Offline Ton

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #410 on: April 22, 2014, 07:18:04 PM »
sub, although it is a bit cumbersome, for the moment I will keep experimenting with a small fan. Anyhow the oven doesn't shut off and even after 30 minutes I have to turn the knob almost to 1 to shut it off. And I don't have to take the risk that something gets damaged.

But one more question: Should the heating element stay red hot all the time ? I ask, because mine does not. In the beginning it gets red hot indeed but after some time, although the control light always is on and the thermostat doesn't shut off, the red hot glowing of the heating element disappears and the element is almost black color again.

Is this normal ? If not, what do you think could be the cause ? (Btw, I only have the standard, pac-man type, element).

Offline bmihalje

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #411 on: April 23, 2014, 04:43:17 AM »
Drogus,

I bought the stronger 4000w dimmer just in case. I will be using it for my two 110v elements (600 and custom 1300w). Did the dimmer heat up on 110? Did you manage to get it glowing? Im looking for a long term solution with the 110v elements but in case it prooves bad, i will go with the 220v. The 13euro is a custom element i suppose? How did you manage to mount the upper one without the original terminal plate or did they include that in the custom element?

Offline drogus

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #412 on: April 23, 2014, 05:03:15 AM »
Did the dimmer heat up on 110? Did you manage to get it glowing?

The element heated up and became red after some time, if that's what're you asking for.

The 13euro is a custom element i suppose?

Yup, I ordered it based on a scheme I linked to.

How did you manage to mount the upper one without the original terminal plate or did they include that in the custom element?

The custom element comes only with nuts. I haven't wired everything yet, but I have a high temperature ceramic terminal purchased on ebay. sub mentioned one of the ebay sellers with such equipment in one of his previous posts.

Offline bmihalje

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #413 on: April 23, 2014, 05:06:56 AM »
I forgot to mention that I ordered two. For each element. Ao i can control the 110v input. Woupd probably need one if it was 230 but... i did order the ceramic terminal and other needed wiring but im waiting for the dimmers and a friend to help me with the assembly..

Offline Probo

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #414 on: April 25, 2014, 06:55:59 AM »
5h in bulk  19h in ball

Hi, Sub!
As always, your pizza, cool! Congratulations!

I just finished all the possible modification of its Optima Napoli and while experimenting with her ​​power.
Lower heat level, I did not touch, and the top made ​​the order, but at 1600 Watt, Watt turned 2400-2600. ))
Saved the situation with two power control operating mode to 2800 watts.

Here's what happened at the first test:
Caputo Pizza, 55% hydration, 0.20 g yeast, salt 50 g/l, 24 hours in the ball / balls in 36 hours at 200 g.
Bake 1 minute 10 seconds.

Offline Probo

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #415 on: April 25, 2014, 07:21:07 AM »
By the way, that's what happened after all modifications "from scratch" new Optima Napoli:

Offline Probo

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #416 on: April 25, 2014, 07:23:36 AM »
The images and the rest:


Offline Probo

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #417 on: April 25, 2014, 07:36:22 AM »
5h in bulk  19h in ball


Sub, I regret, no one was able to answer the question...


«Tell me, please, how the level of humidity in the room on the final quality of the test?
When the room humidity level increased properly be reduced percentage of water in the dough, for example from 65% to 62%?

At my house all the time works pretty powerful air cleaning (moisturizer) Venta and humidity in the rooms, usually does not drop below 50%»


Tell me, please, why when using flour blue Caputo Pizza and hydration of 60% and higher, my dough get very sticky!
Thank you!

Offline Tampa

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #418 on: April 25, 2014, 08:33:47 AM »
By the way, that's what happened after all modifications "from scratch" new Optima Napoli:
Nice mod Probo!  Beautifully done, and great pictures.  Thanks for sharing.
Dave

Offline bmihalje

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #419 on: April 25, 2014, 09:34:57 AM »
Wow! Probo, that looks real neat and factory-like :)

What did you for isolation? Ceramic blanket or simillar? The dimmers are working ok and if you don't mind sharing, where did you get them (price)?

Thanks!

Offline tristan111

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #420 on: April 25, 2014, 03:50:51 PM »
I have a general question: why you put more heating elements, if you get the same temperature with just the normal top heating element by using a fan or modifying the thermostat?

Which and why is the Bestron DLD 9070, the G3Ferrari Express Delizia ( Amazon: http://www.amazon.de/G3Ferrari-1XP20000-Express-Delizia-Pizzamaker/dp/B002VA4CDI/?tag=pizzamaking-20 ) or the G3Ferrari Express Napoli better for the simple modification?  Is this the new Delizia you were talking about?

Also I found this Express Napoli in the internet, they say it goes up to 450 degrees : http://pizza57.de/optima-pizza-express-napoli-pizzamaker-by-gabriele-ferrari
But its not a round heating elemnt, is that a problem?

Offline Probo

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #421 on: April 26, 2014, 02:12:55 PM »
Nice mod Probo!  Beautifully done, and great pictures.  Thanks for sharing.
Dave

Thank you, Dave!

I am very happy to share their modification of the furnace and at the same time, I want to sincerely thank all active users of this forum, to help me get this stuff!
Guys, thanks for the detailed inventory changes own furnaces attached to them photos and answers to many questions!
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 02:59:07 PM by Probo »

Offline Probo

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #422 on: April 26, 2014, 02:37:55 PM »
Wow! Probo, that looks real neat and factory-like :)

What did you for isolation? Ceramic blanket or simillar? The dimmers are working ok and if you don't mind sharing, where did you get them (price)?

Thanks!

Thank you, really tried!  ;)

Power controllers, I bought at a local store and paid for them at $ 25 each.
While working well, and what will happen next, time will tell.
Their response: 150-2800W 220V
The most interesting thing that I ordered single heating element power 1600W 220V, and after installing it turned out that his power is greater than 2400W...

My advice to anyone who makes custom heating elements:
avoid errors and unforeseen manufacturers' unpleasant surprises necessarily buy regulators plus headroom!

Offline Probo

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #423 on: April 26, 2014, 02:47:22 PM »
Colleagues, desperate lovers of quality pizza,
for fun I will say that for my own peace of mind and most importantly, family security, I found and used, a remarkable high- silica fabric KT-11-S8/3-TO - increased density of 600 g/m2 , thickness 0.67 mm, tighter weave "satin" and shrinkage at 1000 degrees C of only 1%!
It has a 100% heat resistance up to 1200 degrees C!

With all this it is environmentally friendly, while its production is not used, no tar and paint, at any temperature does not emit odors and vapors, as well as it did not fall off any fluff! (not to be confused with fiberglass)
I used it between the upper and lower lid and steel straps, and also, I isolated all the wires inside the stove stocking - braid of the same fabric, only slightly lower density.
I recommend!

http://www.ekowool.ru/assortment2


bmihalje,
that's exactly what I used inside the oven, work out fine, but the aluminum foil as a reflector of heat, just mandatory!

See post "Reply # 339" there also see photos of fabric and braid of the same quality.

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #424 on: April 27, 2014, 05:15:27 AM »
I have a general question: why you put more heating elements, if you get the same temperature with just the normal top heating element by using a fan or modifying the thermostat?

A powerfull heating element keep the temp inside the oven stable and gives more heat from radiation.

But one more question: Should the heating element stay red hot all the time ? I ask, because mine does not. In the beginning it gets red hot indeed but after some time, although the control light always is on and the thermostat doesn't shut off, the red hot glowing of the heating element disappears and the element is almost black color again.

Is this normal ? If not, what do you think could be the cause ? (Btw, I only have the standard, pac-man type, element).

Yes the heating element stay red until you let the oven open, I don't know why it turn black is it still hot?

Here's what happened at the first test:
Caputo Pizza, 55% hydration, 0.20 g yeast, salt 50 g/l, 24 hours in the ball / balls in 36 hours at 200 g.
Bake 1 minute 10 seconds.

For the Neapolitan the hydration should be at least 58% with the Caputo pizzeria you can go easily to 65%


Tell me, please, why when using flour blue Caputo Pizza and hydration of 60% and higher, my dough get very sticky!
Thank you!

Look at Craig's topic How I make my NP dough

knead a little (5min) 10 min of rest, few stretch and fold, 10 min of rest, and again some stretch and fold....
you do this until  the dough don't stick.






By the way, that's what happened after all modifications "from scratch" new Optima Napoli:

Very good probo, that's a clean job !


The mod of barberini




 

pizzapan