Author Topic: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.  (Read 68088 times)

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Offline Jakeyjake

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #60 on: July 16, 2013, 04:36:37 AM »
Adding deflector wont make it so much better only a hint better than original. You will need to add another heating element to top.

Thanks.do you have a link to how to install the mods etc


Offline Bensch

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2013, 08:13:43 AM »
is it possible to  mount the ground heating element into the top of the oven?

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #62 on: July 28, 2013, 01:30:46 PM »
Yeah It should be.

Sub, I have seen some of these burners and they were being sold in the "convection fan" section of catalogs. Notice the 90 degree angle of the ring where the wires connect. Are you going to flip yours over and have the connector prongs go up through the top reflector pan? Thanks!  :chef:


It's one of these, I've bent the heating element, unfortunately it won't fit how I want, and I don't intend to cut in my stainless steel dome so. . .


I've tried to use a whole central reflector, the idea was less air volume to heat, baking time shorter, I was wrong.


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntEn5_cqrao" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntEn5_cqrao</a>




« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 01:34:58 PM by sub »

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2013, 05:12:53 PM »
Hi,

Pies of the day

Caputo Pizzeria
65% hydration
2.8% salt
8% homemade sourdough

bulk: 11 hours @ 64F balls: 15~21 hours @ 64F.
ball weight 195g  Bake times were all ~ 90 seconds.

Very good taste, light and creamy the dough melt in your mouth.


Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #64 on: August 14, 2013, 05:21:56 PM »
Hi Sub,
Your pizzas look fantastic, I wish I could eat one your pizzas right now ;)

I live in Germany and was thinking about buying a Bestron DL9070 myself. There's a shop that here sells them pre-modded with a PC fan to cool the thermostat but it seems that the oven will still not create much heat on the top?! The modification is simple enough for me to make my own I'm just not sure whether the fan should blow or suck and whether there's a better mod by hacking up the actual thermostat. Can you elaborate?

In general: Can you outline the modifications you did and where you acquired the parts and how to do the mods? For the time being I'm mostly interested in the thermostat modification you must have made and where you got the second heating element for the top. Also the mod you did to be able to turn the pizza looks interesting.

Alternatively: Would you be interested in building a pre-modded pizzamaker I could buy? If you prefer, you can send me an email via the forum function.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 05:23:48 PM by StoneCut »

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #65 on: August 15, 2013, 05:59:42 AM »
Hi StoneCut,

Thanks

I don't recommend you to buy a Bestron 9070, it's a less powerfull model (1100W) and there is less space between the heating element and the stone.

Look for a new Delizia model instead, the round heating element are back but ask the vendor to be sure to have a new model (on Amazon.de or on Ebay )

The parts came from another oven, look on ebay.de it's the best place to buy them for few bucks.

I've removed the thermostat and for the second heating element you can look at
Doppia resistenza e pietra rotante x vittoriofornoalegna
doppia resistenza e pietra rotante, book fotografico

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #66 on: August 15, 2013, 01:54:03 PM »
Thanks for the info, Sub. i appreciate it. It'll take me a while to understand the gibberish that Google Translator spits out when I check those links, though, since my Italian is basically non-existant.

I also found that the old G3Ferrari (Napoli) model is still available from Amazon under the brand 'Optima':
http://www.amazon.de/Optima-Pizza-Express-Napoli-Ferrari/dp/B00BSX0JYU

I've read some reviews that the build quality for the Delizia (made in China as opposed to Italy for the Napoli) is really bad. Which model should I ultimately get?

Also - the second heat coil in the top: the way I understand it, both must be rated as 110V to ultimately be powered by 220V, is that correct?

As for taking out the thermostat, it looks like it's basically hot-wired, correct?!

I couldn't find any used Pizzamakers (apart from the one you linked to) at all, no matter what brand and whether broken or not, unfortunately. i would just buy a used one instead and try to fix if I could find one :/

EDIT
I was able to find an original (?) but used red G3Ferrari Pizza Express Napoli (not Delizia). It has two knobs on the top of the oven - is this the original "good" model? I can buy it cheap but must drive a long way for it. Can you please outline the minimum mods I should do (I believe you called it M1) and what type of second heating element I would need for this oven (110 or 220V)?

Also, the pizza stone is very dirty on the used one. Can I just flip it over since I don't know what the previous owner did with it?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 04:16:29 PM by StoneCut »

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #67 on: August 15, 2013, 05:01:07 PM »
I also found that the old G3Ferrari (Napoli) model is still available from Amazon under the brand 'Optima':
http://www.amazon.de/Optima-Pizza-Express-Napoli-Ferrari/dp/B00BSX0JYU


Yeah but the heating element is not round  :-\ and they added a 230C ceramic thermostat on top of the dome -> Napoli torna con Optima
I've read some reviews that the build quality for the Delizia (made in China as opposed to Italy for the Napoli) is really bad. Which model should I ultimately get?


The Napoli made in Italy with stainless steel dome if you can find it, it's very solid unlike the delizia, bestron and other clones from China.


Also - the second heat coil in the top: the way I understand it, both must be rated as 110V to ultimately be powered by 220V, is that correct?


yes  (top 110v + 110v) + (220v bottom)   or you can do:    (top 220v + 220v) + (220v bottom)

I was able to find an original (?) but used red G3Ferrari Pizza Express Napoli (not Delizia). It has two knobs on the top of the oven - is this the original "good" model? I can buy it cheap but must drive a long way for it.


without a picture I can tell you, look here
normally only the napoly(and the Divina) made in italy with stainless steel has the 220v heating element, all the models from China are in 110V.


Can you please outline the minimum mods I should do (I believe you called it M1) and what type of second heating element I would need for this oven (110 or 220V)?


You can read this with your translator.

Also, the pizza stone is very dirty on the used one. Can I just flip it over since I don't know what the previous owner did with it?


You can easily clean the stone with pyrolysis, or let the oven run 30 min with the thermostat mod, two or three cycles.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 05:06:50 PM by sub »

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #68 on: August 15, 2013, 05:27:17 PM »
Wow, so much good Info! Thank you!

Anyway, from the pictures I have it is hard to tell which model it is (see attachments). I did notice that heating element is not round, though :/

As Pyrolysis - how does that actually work? The results in your pictures are great!

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #69 on: August 15, 2013, 06:34:24 PM »
As Pyrolysis - how does that actually work? The results in your pictures are great!

At 500 the fat are burnt and the stone clean by itself, you plug the oven and let it preheat for 30 minutes and then turn it off  or the plastic will melt and the security thermal fuse shut the oven off.
If the oven is very dirty it's better to do it outside, there is a lot of bad smelling smoke and maybe some flames.

I was able to find an original (?) but used red G3Ferrari Pizza Express Napoli (not Delizia). It has two knobs on the top of the oven - is this the original "good" model? I can buy it cheap but must drive a long way for it. Can you please outline the minimum mods I should do (I believe you called it M1) and what type of second heating element I would need for this oven (110 or 220V)?

It's a good one made in italy:  Art. 101/ML Pizza Express ''Napoli'' 1XP20200 the second knob is a timer.


Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #70 on: August 15, 2013, 06:46:01 PM »
I'm glad I bought it, then (for 10!!). Thank you for your patience and information. Too bad about the heating element (resistenza), though. I'll have to see what I can do about it. Most 'resistenza ricambi' I found so far were also the omega shape, though. I guess it's better than nothing. Next step would be to find out how to fit a second heating element but I'll try it as-is first.

Also thanks for clarifying the cleaning process. I will perform the thermostat mod (find the 'off' position, turn counter-clockwise under the first screw about 1/4 turn - correct?) and then do the cleaning procedure on the balcony. Our neighbours will love me ;)

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2013, 02:20:26 AM »
For 10! it's a bargain, don't complain  :P

You can  put a second "pac-man"  heating element like Vespa72 ( spare heating element around 15 at viafarina.nl but it's not a good alternative in my opinion)

The is also straight heating element rods who can be bent to the shape you like and hardens when first fired -> Universal Bendable Heating Elements
Maybe you will find them cheaper in Germany, I'll go for 1500-1600W.

For the thermostat, you want to hear the "click" sound when the oven start to heat the closest to 0, not near 1.
 

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2013, 07:14:49 AM »
You can  put a second "pac-man"  heating element like Vespa72 ( spare heating element around 15 at viafarina.nl but it's not a good alternative in my opinion)

Hhhm, good alternative if I can't come up with a better solution.

The is also straight heating element rods who can be bent to the shape you like and hardens when first fired -> Universal Bendable Heating Elements
Maybe you will find them cheaper in Germany, I'll go for 1500-1600W.

You mean 1500W in total (including both heating elements already in the oven or an extra 1500W element? That seems a lot if the extra element has more power than the entire oven ?!

For the thermostat, you want to hear the "click" sound when the oven start to heat the closest to 0, not near 1.

Just to clarify the procedure: Turn on the oven and let it heat up just a little, then turn back the knob until the preheating turns off. Mark the spot on the device. Pull the plug, do the mod by turning the adjust screw 1/4 turn counter-clockwise, plug back in again and verify that the thermostat now turns off at the new position which should be closer to Zero. Is that correct?

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2013, 07:40:36 AM »
You mean 1500W in total (including both heating elements already in the oven or an extra 1500W element? That seems a lot if the extra element has more power than the entire oven ?!

No I mean 1500-1600W in total for the top heating element, 600w in the bottom,  2100-2200W total power.
1200W on top is not powerfull enough in my opinion if you want to cook a real neapolitan pie .
You'll have to redo completely the wiring with a 2.5mm high heat resistant wire

Just to clarify the procedure: Turn on the oven and let it heat up just a little, then turn back the knob until the preheating turns off. Mark the spot on the device. Pull the plug, do the mod by turning the adjust screw 1/4 turn counter-clockwise, plug back in again and verify that the thermostat now turns off at the new position which should be closer to Zero. Is that correct?

No,
Put the thermostat on 0
plug the oven
turn the knob of the thermostat slowly from 0 to 1 in a quiet room, you should hear a click when the light of the oven turn ON
put your screwdriver in the knob and then turn a little
You want to hear the "clic" sound (oven GOES ON)  near 0 not 1.
the thermostat is just an ON / OFF switch

« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 07:45:47 AM by sub »

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #74 on: August 16, 2013, 05:20:15 PM »
Thanks for the clarifications, Sub. I'll try the M1 mod first but will have to come up with some other deflector solution because of the shape of the heating elements. I'm also still looking around for a second pizza maker, possibly for parts.

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #75 on: August 17, 2013, 02:34:38 PM »
I picked up my G3ferrari Napoli today and immediately wanted to modify the thermostat but the inner screw (underneath the screw that attaches the knob) simply won't turn. It's tightened down very hard.

Can you confirm I'm trying to turn this in the right direction? I'm trying it counter-clockwise, so to the left. Is this correct?

EDIT
Ok, I couldn't adjust the thermostat. I think I pretty much stripped the screw inside :/ Anything I can do?

I still went ahead to try and clean the stone. After 23 minutes the thermostat switched the oven off. It took about 10 minutes to turn back on even though i opened the lid. Will it stay on if the mod works? I ran the heat cycle two more times and the stone is pretty clean now :) Thanks !

Can you give some tips on making the actual pizza?

I noticed that some people put aluminium foil on the stone and remove it just prior to putting in the pizza - why?

Also, should I preheat on 2.5 and then turn up to 3 when I put in the pizza or leave it at 3 from the beginning?

Since I don't have a reflector and deflector yet I'll probably put some aluminium foil on the toppings for now. Once I have the reflector aluminium plate, how do I attach it to the dome - some heat-proof glue? I can use the top screw for the deflector but is this also enough for the reflector?

Oh, and this oven gets really hot alright... I slipped off the plastic handle and accidentally touched the housing. Nice blister on my finger now...
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 05:30:10 PM by StoneCut »

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #76 on: August 18, 2013, 03:29:45 AM »
I picked up my G3ferrari Napoli today and immediately wanted to modify the thermostat but the inner screw (underneath the screw that attaches the knob) simply won't turn. It's tightened down very hard.

Ok, I couldn't adjust the thermostat. I think I pretty much stripped the screw inside :/ Anything I can do?


Some models don't have the inner screw in it, in other there is glue inside.

Another way to mod the thermostat is to open the oven (look at the service manual ) and bend a little the stop tap with pliers, you want
to go over the 3 position but still stop at 0.


Can you give some tips on making the actual pizza?


The best way to have a good leoparding with the oven is to use cold ferment technique, so let the dough 3 to 5 days in the fridge.




I noticed that some people put aluminium foil on the stone and remove it just prior to putting in the pizza - why?


To avoid the burnt of the bottom of the pie, I strongly recommend you to buy an IR thermometer



Also, should I preheat on 2.5 and then turn up to 3 when I put in the pizza or leave it at 3 from the beginning?




You want the heating element ALWAYS on with a bright red cherry color, so start on 3 and let it preheat around 14-15 minutes before baking, use a peel to quickly put the pie in, watch my videos.

Since I don't have a reflector and deflector yet I'll probably put some aluminium foil on the toppings for now. Once I have the reflector aluminium plate, how do I attach it to the dome - some heat-proof glue? I can use the top screw for the deflector but is this also enough for the reflector?

Don't use any glue, only use the center screw and the rim of the dome to maintain the aluminum plate in.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 03:32:45 AM by sub »

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #77 on: August 18, 2013, 05:22:32 AM »
Thanks, I already saw the mechanical stop of the thermostat and was thinking about bending it but how do I avoid the thermostat switching off in the first place? Will the reflector shield the thermostat enough so it doesn't shut off?

A pizza peel and IR thermometer are on the shopping list, I'll just need to make sure that the IR thermometer goes up to 500+ degrees fahrenheit which most don't seem to but I'll find one in the german ebay store eventually.

I watched all your videos in envy :)

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #78 on: August 19, 2013, 04:09:50 PM »
Today, I modded the thermostat by grinding it down so it goes past "3":
http://i.imgur.com/RE37g3H.jpg

I can't believe how hard it is to find a 30cm aluminium cake/pie tin for the reflector where I live, though :/ Will need to keep looking. Hopefully I'll find one.
As for the deflector - does it make more sense just to use a flat steel disc instead of a cone shape since I have the "pac-man" (or "Omega") heat element?

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #79 on: August 23, 2013, 10:47:55 AM »
Since I couldn't find a suitable aluminium pie tray (30cm) as everyone else is using anywhere in Germany, I bought one made from tinplate instead. It is/was very shiny and quite rigid and I had to use a rubber hammer to mold it to fit into the lid of the Napoli. It looked nice when I was done.

Then today, I tested whether the tinplate would be able to handle the heat. To make a long story short: No, it doesn't.

I ran the oven cranked up to "4" (due to my grinding mod) with no pizza inside for approx. 30 minutes on the balcony as a test when my wife noticed that the center knob on the Napoli was about to come off... I guess it got too hot. So I immediately unplugged the device and opened the lid: the, previously shiny, tinplate is now very dull and grey looking - it appeared as if t was even glowing a little. I guess it was a stupid idea to try :/

The good news is, however, that the thermostat didn't shut off once during the whole time so I'm pretty confident that I'll be reaching the required temperature now without the device shutting off in the middle of baking a Pizza as it previously did...

Is anybody willing to send me one or two disposable aluminium baking trays as needed for the reflector mod? The largest I can buy here is only 27cm.

One more thing to note: I bought some additional nuts and washers the other day in order to attach the deflector at a later point. I talked to the salesman about the parts I had picked and what I was going to use them for and he immediately replaced them with stainless steel ones - I had picked ones that were zinc-plated. Turns out that was another very stupid idea because Zinc melts at a temperature below 500 degrees celsius and can be highly poisonous... It is advisable to use the best stainless steel, possibly even 'surgeon' steel instead. I have postponed attaching the deflector until I have a suitable reflector first.