Author Topic: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.  (Read 75324 times)

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #80 on: August 23, 2013, 12:18:51 PM »
Since I couldn't find a suitable aluminium pie tray (30cm) as everyone else is using anywhere in Germany, I bought one made from tinplate instead. It is/was very shiny and quite rigid and I had to use a rubber hammer to mold it to fit into the lid of the Napoli. It looked nice when I was done.

Then today, I tested whether the tinplate would be able to handle the heat. To make a long story short: No, it doesn't.

I ran the oven cranked up to "4" (due to my grinding mod) with no pizza inside for approx. 30 minutes on the balcony as a test when my wife noticed that the center knob on the Napoli was about to come off... I guess it got too hot. So I immediately unplugged the device and opened the lid: the, previously shiny, tinplate is now very dull and grey looking - it appeared as if t was even glowing a little. I guess it was a stupid idea to try :/

The good news is, however, that the thermostat didn't shut off once during the whole time so I'm pretty confident that I'll be reaching the required temperature now without the device shutting off in the middle of baking a Pizza as it previously did...

Is anybody willing to send me one or two disposable aluminium baking trays as needed for the reflector mod? The largest I can buy here is only 27cm.

One more thing to note: I bought some additional nuts and washers the other day in order to attach the deflector at a later point. I talked to the salesman about the parts I had picked and what I was going to use them for and he immediately replaced them with stainless steel ones - I had picked ones that were zinc-plated. Turns out that was another very stupid idea because Zinc melts at a temperature below 500 degrees celsius and can be highly poisonous... It is advisable to use the best stainless steel, possibly even 'surgeon' steel instead. I have postponed attaching the deflector until I have a suitable reflector first.
Can you just wrap your new tin plate in aluminum foil?
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #81 on: August 23, 2013, 01:05:25 PM »
Thanks for your reply! I'm hesitating to leave it in there as it appears as if something has burnt off the surface of the tinplate. I'm unsure whether that stuff is healthy and want to avoid to expose my pizzas to hazardous steams. I'd rather get what everyone else is using instead. If I can't come up with another solution I'll drive to the Netherlands or shop on eBay France or something on hope to get that alu thingy instead.

EDIT
Here's what it looks like now:
http://i.imgur.com/XXZD05D.jpg
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 01:15:27 PM by StoneCut »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #82 on: August 23, 2013, 01:55:26 PM »
Thanks for your reply! I'm hesitating to leave it in there as it appears as if something has burnt off the surface of the tinplate. I'm unsure whether that stuff is healthy and want to avoid to expose my pizzas to hazardous steams. I'd rather get what everyone else is using instead. If I can't come up with another solution I'll drive to the Netherlands or shop on eBay France or something on hope to get that alu thingy instead.

EDIT
Here's what it looks like now:
http://i.imgur.com/XXZD05D.jpg
I wonder if you heat cycle that through a couple of times it might be OK to use....then wrap with foil for reflective purpose if that is what you all are trying to achieve with these pie plates.
My gf is from Germany (Kaiserslautern area) and we send packages there all the time. If I can help you in some way with sending American product, my friend...just say the word.
Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #83 on: August 23, 2013, 02:42:00 PM »
Hi Bob, that is a very kind offer. Thank you very much! I might get back to it if I can't find another solution.

I have taken another look at the tin and I might actually have been on the wrong track. It appears that what I have on the tinplate might be stuff that evaporated from the actual fire stone (basically dirt). I scrubbed a part of the tin and it got shiny again to some extent. I'm in the process of disassembling the unit and see what I can do to the tinplate with some dish-washing detergent. If it comes out clean again then I'll be a happy man and proceed to bake some pizzas with it in a few days (cold rising technique). One thing's for sure - that pizza stone is almost as new again ;)

And yes - it's about the reflection of the heat from what I gather. The modding is not for the faint of heart, though. 30 minutes was enough to start melting the center knob. I'm considering leaving it off entirely exactly for that reason. I had already wondered why some people replaced it with a center nut, I guess I now know why.

Oh - and please excuse me answering my own posts sometimes. I figure my journey might be helpful to others attempting the same things. Can't wait to get my salary so I can order an IR thermometer to see how hot this baby really gets.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 02:43:31 PM by StoneCut »

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #84 on: August 23, 2013, 02:42:35 PM »
Ok, so I tried cleaning the tinplate. I can scrub it shiny again to some extent but only with a Brillo pad. What speaks against the stuff on it being dirt is that the tinplate looks the same (even worse) on the backside. I think I will scratch this tinplate. Covering it in aluminium foil might work but I'm not willing to take chances regarding hazardous fumes because my daughter has a kidney disease and I don't want to be one who messes up her remaining kidney. I hope you understand. Will update this topic with a pic in a minute.
Carsten

EDIT
Backside of tinplate - looks like rust:
http://i.imgur.com/NURngyt.jpg
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 03:11:07 PM by StoneCut »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #85 on: August 23, 2013, 03:49:19 PM »
Ok, so I tried cleaning the tinplate. I can scrub it shiny again to some extent but only with a Brillo pad. What speaks against the stuff on it being dirt is that the tinplate looks the same (even worse) on the backside. I think I will scratch this tinplate. Covering it in aluminium foil might work but I'm not willing to take chances regarding hazardous fumes because my daughter has a kidney disease and I don't want to be one who messes up her remaining kidney. I hope you understand. Will update this topic with a pic in a minute.
Carsten

EDIT
Backside of tinplate - looks like rust:
http://i.imgur.com/NURngyt.jpg
Yeah, there's no telling what that plate is made out of so you're doing the right thing by not taking any chances....bummer though I know.  BTW, I have a 'Lil Deni table top pizza oven I got on e-bay....do you know what those are?  :)  I modded the switch but somehow managed to break the damn thing.....it's stuck on "11"!  ;D   That baby can get HOT man but I have to control on/off by unplugging the cord now!  :-D
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Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #86 on: August 23, 2013, 04:09:27 PM »
Yeah I've seen them on this forum. Those Deni ovens appear to be clones of the model I have. These things really do get hot  >:D But that's exactly why they're great.

No wonder the EU passed legislation restricting max. enclosure temps (which all old models fail) - as I mentioned I already burned myself while using it when I slipped off the handle (I guess I'm plain stupid, though).

The newer models here are crap without even more modding so I'm glad I picked this old thing up for cheap. You do need to keep a constant eye on it, though.

If I had more space I'd try to pick up a 'proper' Pizza oven (I've seen some good deals on eBay classifieds) but it's simply out of the question due the relatively small flat we live in. Making a really good pizza at home is a lot more challenging than I originally anticipated but I love a good challenge  ;D

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #87 on: August 24, 2013, 03:28:38 AM »
Hi StoneCut,

The aluminum pie tray is the best material to use because it's very reflective, when it start to become white and less reflective the baking time are longer.

The shiny stainless steel reflector in the middle of the heating element in the picture quickly changed of color with the heat, it's best to warp it in aluminum pie tray.

Try a Catering Equipment store I'm sure you find them there.

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #88 on: August 24, 2013, 06:40:11 AM »
Hi Sub,

I've literally spent days looking for 30cm aluminium pie trays online and in stores now. The largest I can get are 27cm in diameter. I've seen some with fairly large rims and I'm hoping they will be large enough if I flatten them a little.

The good thing about this shopping spree is that I found a local market for Italian specialties that has a pretty good flour selection and Italian sausages.

I'll be preparing some dough in the meantime. First with our regular Type 405 flour (which most Pizzerias use around here saying it's very similar to Tipo 00) and then using various Italian Tipo 00 flours from different brands.

I'll update here once I get the alu reflector sorted. Might take a while :(

EDIT
This is the largest I can find:
http://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B00558D8P6/?tag=pizzamaking-20
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 08:45:59 PM by Steve »

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #89 on: August 26, 2013, 02:48:40 PM »
Hi StoneCut,

Don't worry, 27cm should be enough.



Pizza of the day

Caputo pizzeria
65% hydration
2.9% sea salt
0.5g brewer's yeast for 1L
24h in bulk @ 18C-65F  24h in ball @ 18C

I was trying to see how much yeast I can use for 48h at ambient temperature, too much activity in the bulk  :-\

Mozzarella  bufala, pecorino, chives, evoo, sea salt, very good topping




Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #90 on: August 26, 2013, 02:55:22 PM »
Looks delicious, but a little flat. Is that because of the high yeast activity in bulk?
Your percentages - are the baker's percentage (based on fliur), except for the yeast of course?

Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #91 on: August 31, 2013, 04:05:17 PM »
I (almost) finished the M1 mod but I'm having several issues/questions. Maybe Sub or Bob (I accidentally hit ignore on my iPad earlier, sorry about that, sure didn't mean to do that!) or anyone else can help?

Background:
I equipped the oven with the 27cm reflector and made my own switch mod that works well, as mentioned earlier. I haven't gotten the parts for the deflector yet but at this point I don't seem to need it either (more on that later).

Yesterday, I made a different dough than I usually do and also fermented and proved it differently but todays results were not good at all:
1 kg Tipo 00 flour (a german brand - W value unknown)
600 ml water (60%)
30g salt
2g fresh yeast

Before I state the new direct method, I should say that previously I did the indirect, cold ferment method for 24 hours but with german Type 405 flour (and also a different german Tipo 00 sometimes, results were similar), 650 ml water and 10g yeast (yes, a lot I know - I'm a beginner).

I previously balled the dough after giving the bulk just 2x 10 minutes of rest (first rest after adding about 60% of the flour and the second after all the flour was incorporated). I previously put the balls into well oiled tupperware containers and then stored them in the fridge, taking them out approx 1 hour before making the pizzas. The dough was always very smooth and could easily be stretched.

Yesterday, however, I followed roughly the same method at first but trouble started right at the beginning: I couldn't use my usual handmixer, the dough would just stick to the mixer elements. So I hand-mixed everything but still doing it in two stages (first with 60% of the flour, then the rest again). I balled up the dough again but put them into a big plastic container which I only floured and left them in the kitchen, not in the fridge. Then, today when I wanted to bake the Pizzas, I noticed that the balls very extremely flat. Because I only used flour and no oil in the container I couldn't take them out properly so I had to reball the dough. This resulted in not being able to stretch out the dough at all :( I still had to go ahead and make tiny Pizzas because we were hungry, doh! That, obviously resulted in very poor Pizzas.

Anyway, to the prep and baking: I used San Marzano tomates which I hand-crushed for the first time which tasted really great. That was the only thing that was great, though... Now, please don't kill me but I rarely use Mozzarella but young Gouda instead and I did the same again today. That bit went well, too. I pit the toppings underneath the cheese as my other eaters preferred it that way.

I preheated the stone to ~365 celsius (measured with my new IR thermometer, thanks for the link Sub!) - I did nt cover the stone with alunium foil as Sub does - and used my (also new) pizza peel to shoot the pizza in there. Turning each Pizza after approx. 1 minute, final bake time approx. 3 minutes.

Observations and questions:
* Apparently I don't need a deflector because neither condiments nor cheese got burned in any way - is this only needed for double heating elements or when using Mozzarella?
* Why do you cover the stone with aluminium foil when heating up - why not just wait until the oven reaches the right temp (360-385C for a single heating element on top from what I learned) and shove in the Pizza ? i did use the aluminium foil inbetween bakes, though.
* My heating element doesn't turn pink or cherry red, just very bright orange - is this because I have the Omega/Pacman heating elements or because I don't have the deflector or because my aluminium reflector is not large enough? Or should I just not worry about it? The browning appears to work well (ok, after 3 minzes baking time).
* What's the best way to rescue a pizza ball that sticks heavily to the container - did I do the right thing by re-balling and should I just way for it to relax again?
* Should I go for 60% or 65% hydration as I did before?
* how can I clean the stone a little between bakes ? The last Pizza was noticeably black on the bottom from leftover flour on the stone
* Finally: Sub - can you post your own method for dough preparation and baking in a little more detail tailored for a M1 mod oven? i read your french post on that other forum but some things don't translate well.

I'll try one more Pizza in a couple of hours when the balls have relaxed again and try to remember to take a photo.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 04:09:54 PM by StoneCut »

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #92 on: September 09, 2013, 02:32:08 PM »

* Apparently I don't need a deflector because neither condiments nor cheese got burned in any way - is this only needed for double heating elements or when using Mozzarella?

For one heating element too, it direct the heat toward the crust to color it.

* Why do you cover the stone with aluminium foil when heating up - why not just wait until the oven reaches the right temp (360-385C for a single heating element on top from what I learned) and shove in the Pizza ? i did use the aluminium foil inbetween bakes, though.

The aluminium foil is used for those who don't have a Ir thermometer, I never use it anymore.

* My heating element doesn't turn pink or cherry red, just very bright orange - is this because I have the Omega/Pacman heating elements or because I don't have the deflector or because my aluminium reflector is not large enough? Or should I just not worry about it? The browning appears to work well (ok, after 3 minzes baking time)

No I have to do with insulation and deflector, the color of the heating element change with it's temperature, look: forge colors

* What's the best way to rescue a pizza ball that sticks heavily to the container - did I do the right thing by re-balling and should I just way for it to relax again?

Never re-ball, use semoulina flour on your container

* Should I go for 60% or 65% hydration as I did before?

water= longer baking time especialy with only one heating element, so dont use a high hydration.

* how can I clean the stone a little between bakes ? The last Pizza was noticeably black on the bottom from leftover flour on the stone

Let the oven reach 500 and let it cool, the stone will be like new

* Finally: Sub - can you post your own method for dough preparation and baking in a little more detail tailored for a M1 mod oven? i read your french post on that other forum but some things don't translate well.

The  easiest  method is a cold ferment, 3 to 5 days of fridge, look at the great thread of Craig: How I make my NP dough

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #93 on: September 09, 2013, 02:46:52 PM »
Weekend' pies

Caputo pizzeria
Hydration around 63%
2.8% salt
3.25% sourdough
7h in bulk @65F and 17hours @65F in balls (24h for the last two)


marinated tomatoes (peeled and desseded ) with olive oil, garlic, salt, pepper, a lot of basil leaves and calabrian chili oil is a topping you have to try once.



Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #94 on: September 09, 2013, 03:22:48 PM »
Beautiful, just beautiful! I hope I can achieve such great Pizzas in my oven at some point in the future. Many thanks for your help!

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #95 on: September 10, 2013, 03:23:14 PM »
Thanks StoneCut


today I was trying to improve the oven a little bit, new mod for insulation.

Before the top of the oven was at +285F and the edges at +375F  now it's much cooler, I feel that the temperature inside is more stable, the stone remains much longer hot when the oven is off, the baking time is unchanged.

In short it is not bad, but the oven will be better with a top 1500W heating element.

 
Today's pies


Caputo pizzeria
Hydration 67%
3% salt
3.25% sourdough
7h in bulk @65F and 17hours @65F in balls




Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #96 on: October 15, 2013, 06:24:53 PM »
I finally decided to rebuilt my napoli with double 600W heating element.

I've bent one of them, it's better this way because they are further from the crust (less risk of burning) and the heat is more focused on the rim.




Offline StoneCut

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #97 on: October 15, 2013, 06:31:26 PM »
Looks really professionally done!

Offline sub

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #98 on: October 15, 2013, 06:41:37 PM »
thanks Stonecut !


Tonight pies


1500g Caputo Pizzeria
1000g cold water
50g salt
brewer's yeast 1.32g

6h in bulk @65F and 18hours in balls


Offline Jaunty

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #99 on: October 27, 2013, 06:13:23 PM »
Wow those pizzas look amazing! How much for your modded oven?!? Good work, I may need to get a standard G3 Ferrari to try out.