Author Topic: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.  (Read 142731 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline drogus

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 56
  • Location: Poland
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #175 on: January 14, 2014, 08:32:35 AM »
I have an interesting info for modders looking for a heating element. I've found a company in Poland which can produce various heating elements based on a drawing or a model. I've quickly prepared a sketchup model similar to what is needed for modifying a g3 or similar device: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3ydtiakw095mmzy/8yg8Rb1VrH#/ and asked them about a price.

Today I got an answer. They estimate a price of such a heating element with a power of 1200-1300W for about 20EUR + 6EUR shipping. Here is a screenshot from their catalogue with example heating elements. I will be travelling during a next month, so unfortunately I won't manage to check it out soon, but it looks very promising.

Is there anything I should keep in mind when ordering?


Offline sub

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 738
  • Location: Belgium
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #176 on: January 14, 2014, 09:24:49 AM »
Hi Drogus,

1500W should be better, I really want more watts in my oven to shorten the baking time a bit and quickly reheat the air inside the oven after you've put the pie in.

One turn coil should be best to avoid burn marks on the crust.

I've measured my heating element diameter:  in: 18.1cm   ext: 19,7cm

A Little larger heating element should be a good idea, look at the irradiation diagram,  if I do 28cm-29cm pies in my oven the exterior of the crust is not colored very well. 

pictures: FraMarko custom built 1000W 25cm heating element and the original 600W round heating element.

Offline drogus

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 56
  • Location: Poland
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #177 on: January 14, 2014, 09:50:17 AM »
Thanks for the tips!

Quote
1500W should be better, I really want more watts in my oven to shorten the baking time a bit and quickly reheat the air inside the oven after you've put the pie in.

One turn coil should be best to avoid burn marks on the crust.

The problem is that according to what these guys say, ideally you should not have more than 4W/cm^2 if you use a heating element without any fan (ie. in steady air). They do elements from an 8.2mm diameter "pipe", so even with 25cm 1 turn coil should be about 800W, 2 turn coil 1600W.

Why will a 2 turn coil leave burn marks? Is it because it will be closer to a dough? If that's a reason, maybe I will ask also for a spiral heating element so everything will be roughly on the same level.

Offline sub

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 738
  • Location: Belgium
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #178 on: January 14, 2014, 10:20:48 AM »
It should be OK, depends of the gap between the two coils I guess, mine are very close

To get you an idea:
I've got 6.8cm between the top dome and the refractory stone, 4.5-4.7cm between the heating element and the refractory stone.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 10:29:34 AM by sub »

Offline drogus

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 56
  • Location: Poland
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #179 on: January 14, 2014, 10:52:24 AM »
Great! I will ask about other shapes (like the one you attached) as well. Thanks again for help!

Offline sub

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 738
  • Location: Belgium
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #180 on: January 14, 2014, 04:42:02 PM »
Divella  Pizza 66% hydration
Bulk fermented for 12 hours and 9h in balls
200g baking time 1m20'



Offline sub

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 738
  • Location: Belgium
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #181 on: January 30, 2014, 04:33:23 PM »
Caputo  Pizzeria 66% hydration
Bulk fermented for 14 hours and 8h in balls @18

Offline Gags

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 339
  • Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #182 on: January 30, 2014, 04:57:00 PM »
Awesome!!! Great work and nice pics!!
"I'd trade it all for just a little bit more"

Offline sub

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 738
  • Location: Belgium
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #183 on: February 01, 2014, 07:38:34 AM »
Thanks Gags !



I've swapped my top double heating element with a 1500W fan oven circular heater.

I've bought it cheap on ebay (thanks StoneCut  ;) )

The heating element need to be plugged and  hot before bending it, otherwise there is at risk of damaging, I've used thick leather gloves to center it.

I've put an old Tefal pan in the dome to insulate it more from the heat.

The preheating time is reduced from 11 to just under 9 minutes, the heating element glow very quickly.

When you've baked a pie, you need to be very quick to put another in or the stone will be too hot and you'll burn the bottom.

the dough ball must be flatten before and you'll have to put the topping like a  pizzaiolo,  it may be a good idea to use a voltage regulator.
 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 07:42:06 AM by sub »


Offline Tampa

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1661
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #184 on: February 01, 2014, 03:16:59 PM »
Thanks Sub.  You do a great job innovating on this thread.  I love the last photo caption: "seasoning the oven" :-D
Dave

Offline StoneCut

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 52
  • Location: Germany
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #185 on: February 01, 2014, 03:41:02 PM »
Looks great sub! That heating element is very powerful and the way you put it in there is much more professional than me, hehe! Do you have a picture of mounting the tefal pan? I hope it wasn't anti-stick coated...
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 03:45:06 PM by StoneCut »

Offline sub

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 738
  • Location: Belgium
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #186 on: February 01, 2014, 04:20:12 PM »
Thanks Sub.  You do a great job innovating on this thread.  I love the last photo caption: "seasoning the oven" :-D
Dave

Thanks !

Yes, I'm a big fan of carbon steel cookware, so I try to season everything  :-D

Looks great sub! That heating element is very powerful and the way you put it in there is much more professional than me, hehe! Do you have a picture of mounting the tefal pan? I hope it wasn't anti-stick coated...

Thanks StoneCut ;)

It was  indeed an anti-stick pan, I've removed the coating with a metallic brush on a drill, the pan was patiently  hammered to fit the dome shape.

In the second picture 310120146337 the pan is behind the heating element, it has two holes in it.


Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12515
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #187 on: February 01, 2014, 04:27:02 PM »
the pan was patiently  hammered to fit the dome shape.


;D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline StoneCut

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 52
  • Location: Germany
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #188 on: February 01, 2014, 04:56:43 PM »
Hahaha, you deserve a prize for persistence or patience sub! Your eyes must've been ringing like hell making that pan fit. I'm even more impressed now!

Offline dylandylan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1023
  • Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #189 on: February 02, 2014, 03:43:38 AM »
Wow love the hand hammered backing.  That's artisanal craftsmanship right there.  You could get a job at Zildjian Cymbals

Offline simonski

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #190 on: February 06, 2014, 04:07:35 AM »
Picked up a G3 yesterday - it's a nicely built little gadget. Managed to adjust the thermostat so that it remains on, it really does get hot, especailly the stone (800 degrees, easily). There's definitely a mismatch in temperatures between the top and bottom though, will adding a pie dish make much of a difference (and do I need to remove the element to fit it? I guess I do, is it straight forward?). Not sure I'd be up for replacing the element with a more powerful one, though depending on how difficult it is, I might give it a try).

Offline Don Luigi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 636
  • Location: Germany
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #191 on: February 06, 2014, 01:51:14 PM »
Seriously impressive hand-hammering skills, Sub! This is for sure the Zildijan K-Series of hand-hammered pans!

Bake of today:

63%Hydration
0,3% fresh yeast
100% Caputo in blue 1kg bags (makes the softest pies ever)
3% Salt
Fermented for 3 days in the fridge after a 3 hours bulk rise at room temp.
Super soft dough - perfectly workable.
Taste was really great again.

@simonski: These were done in a Napoli Clone with the M1 Mod only (no double heating elements - just the reflective aluminium pie and the central heat deflector).
On a neapolitan pizza journey with Wood fired oven Pizza Party 70x70
My Pizza


Offline misterschu

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 279
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #192 on: February 06, 2014, 02:42:12 PM »
Don Luigi, what kind of timing are you getting on the pies? Do you turn them mid bake?

Offline Don Luigi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 636
  • Location: Germany
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #193 on: February 06, 2014, 02:51:52 PM »
I am baking at 350-370C Stone Temperature.
Bake in 2:30 Minutes. Turn at 1:30 with barbecue tongs and the lid barely open...
On a neapolitan pizza journey with Wood fired oven Pizza Party 70x70
My Pizza

Offline sub

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 738
  • Location: Belgium
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #194 on: February 06, 2014, 03:58:35 PM »
Wow love the hand hammered backing.  That's artisanal craftsmanship right there.  You could get a job at Zildjian Cymbals

 ;D Thanks Dylan !

Hahaha, you deserve a prize for persistence or patience sub! Your eyes must've been ringing like hell making that pan fit. I'm even more impressed now!

Thanks StoneCut, I was wearing earplugs, I have now a lot more respect for the Wokmakers.

Picked up a G3 yesterday - it's a nicely built little gadget. Managed to adjust the thermostat so that it remains on, it really does get hot, especailly the stone (800 degrees, easily). There's definitely a mismatch in temperatures between the top and bottom though, will adding a pie dish make much of a difference (and do I need to remove the element to fit it? I guess I do, is it straight forward?). Not sure I'd be up for replacing the element with a more powerful one, though depending on how difficult it is, I might give it a try).

Hi simonski,

Adding an aluminum dish will gives you a huge improvement, more insultation and the baking time will be a lot shorter, you can put it without removing the heating element.

Seriously impressive hand-hammering skills, Sub! This is for sure the Zildijan K-Series of hand-hammered pans!

Bake of today:


Thanks Don Luigi, with only one heating element your pie look very good, I like the freshness of the topping considering the baking time.

What was the weight of your dough balls ? the ledge of your disc seem a litle tick, for a short bake try to do 180-200g.



My first try with 1500W heating element:


Caputo pizzeria 65% hydration, 12h in bulk

I've tried with 60g salt / liter for the first time and It will be the last !

The yeast activity in the dough is realy slowed down, the crust is  harder, chewy and more crisp, I didn't like it !
I was thirsty after and the pies feels heavy on the stomach  :-\

Baking time: no improvement, but I think you'll need a well mature dough to reduce it.

I've made a dough ball tray in wood, looks like very good to handle very hydrated dough, the small size is to prevent them to flaten too much with a long rise. 

« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 04:17:09 PM by sub »

Offline thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2060
  • Age: 61
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #195 on: February 06, 2014, 04:45:00 PM »
 your pizza's look great .can these mods be done by a non electrically skilled person? also what salt percentage of salt do you normally use?

Offline sub

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 738
  • Location: Belgium
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #196 on: February 06, 2014, 04:52:56 PM »
Thanks thezaman,

Depends on what you are calling a non electrically skilled person I guess...  :P

I'm not very good with it either (just some basics) but If you take your time and do thinks carefully It's easy, and if you don't know how to wire it, you can always ask for help on a forum or ask a friend.

For the salt I usually uses 50g for one litre of water.

Offline Don Luigi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 636
  • Location: Germany
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #197 on: February 07, 2014, 02:49:36 AM »

Thanks Don Luigi, with only one heating element your pie look very good, I like the freshness of the topping considering the baking time.

What was the weight of your dough balls ? the ledge of your disc seem a litle tick, for a short bake try to do 180-200g.



Hi Sub,
Thanks. You're right the ball weight was 220g this time around which made the rim a little too thick. It was tender and airy though and I think I like my ledge a little thicker than most though. I'll try with 200g next time again. Maybe I can get my bake time down to 2:00 Minutes?
On a neapolitan pizza journey with Wood fired oven Pizza Party 70x70
My Pizza

Offline simonski

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #198 on: February 07, 2014, 03:46:00 AM »
Great looking pizzas!

I'll try and fit a pie dish tomorrow (and deflector) and report back.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 03:50:04 AM by simonski »

Offline sub

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 738
  • Location: Belgium
Re: Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.
« Reply #199 on: February 07, 2014, 05:19:38 AM »
Hi Sub,
Thanks. You're right the ball weight was 220g this time around which made the rim a little too thick. It was tender and airy though and I think I like my ledge a little thicker than most though. I'll try with 200g next time again. Maybe I can get my bake time down to 2:00 Minutes?

With only one heating element it's hard !

avoid dough with high hydration (max 62-63%)
dough balls under 200gr.
light toppings.
medium size pies, around 25-26cm to match the irradiation of the heating element.
stone very hot ( the bottom need to be a little charred)
use a shovel and open the oven only a Little to put the pie in, or the hot hair inside will escape.
don't open the oven when baking.


 

pizzapan