Why did my dough not rise in the oven?

[miner_tom]

Tom,

I am glad your Sicilian Pizza was a success.  It sounds good that you like Better for Bread flour and your crust was thick and airy, and the bottom crust was firm and crunchy.  I think that is also how I like my Sicilian pies.  My Sicilian pizzas take about 15 minutes to bake if I bake on the top deck, so your time for your bake of 17 minutes seems right. 

You see, great minds think alike 

I am using GM Full Strength flour now for all of my Sicilian pies, which is a little lower in protein, but is bromated. 

Is "Full Strength" the "type" or the "name" under which the flour is sold? You must be on the East coast. I talked to the Northern California regional manager for GM flour products and he said that GM does not sell Bromated flour west of the Rockies.

Thank You
Tom

Norma

[norma427]

Tom,

Peter posted at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19772.0.html about the General Mills redone website.  There you can see what protein content GM Full Strength is if you click though General Mills website. 

I am on the East Coast, being in Pa.  You could always mixed flours to get the same protein as GM Full Strength flour at November’s Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator http://tools.foodsim.com/ but if you are happy with Better for Bread flour you could just keep using the Better for Bread Flour.  Harvest King is the professional name for Better for Bread flour if you wanted to purchase it in larger bags.

Peter also posed some flour proteins at Reply 70 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18075.msg184661.html#msg184661 if you are interested.

I knew California doesn’t sell bromated flours, or if they are sold or used, need labeled that the products are made with bromated flours, but didn’t know GM doesn’t sell bromated flours west of the Rockies.

Do you own a pizza business?

Norma

[dmcavanagh]

@Norma

Do you still use any of the ConAgra occident flour we once talked about? I had run out but just this past week I was able to get some. I make bread in a bread machine with that flour and it always turns out great. I have not used it for a Sicilian style pizza, but I think I'm gonna give it a try. Later in the summer I will stock up for next winter!


Dave

[norma427]

@Norma

Do you still use any of the ConAgra occident flour we once talked about? I had run out but just this past week I was able to get some. I make bread in a bread machine with that flour and it always turns out great. I have not used it for a Sicilian style pizza, but I think I'm gonna give it a try. Later in the summer I will stock up for next winter!


Dave

Dave,

I haven’t used any of the ConAgra occident flour lately, but I do still have access to it from my local Country Store. 

It would be interesting if you tired some of the CongAgra occident flour for a Sicilian style pizza. 

Norma

[dmcavanagh]

Norma

I've had my fill of Sicilian pizza for a while, I was on a kick where that was all I was making. In the fall when the weather cools off I'll give an occident Sicilian a try. A little too heavy for summer eating. The occident flour makes a very good loaf of white bread, I've been having it toasted for breakfast ever morning since I bought another bag.

[miner_tom]

Tom,

Peter posted at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19772.0.html about the General Mills redone website.  There you can see what protein content GM Full Strength is if you click though General Mills website. 

I am on the East Coast, being in Pa.  You could always mixed flours to get the same protein as GM Full Strength flour at November’s Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator http://tools.foodsim.com/ but if you are happy with Better for Bread flour you could just keep using the Better for Bread Flour.  Harvest King is the professional name for Better for Bread flour if you wanted to purchase it in larger bags.

Norma, the formula for changing the percentage of gluten in a bread flour, by adding gluten flour, is simply 2 equations in two unknowns.

(amount of bread flour) + (amount of gluten flour) = (total amount of flour) ///equation 1

((percentage of gluten in bread flour)/100)*(amount of bread flour) +   /// equation 2
((percentage of gluten in gluten flour)/100)*(amount of gluten flour) =
((desired percentage of gluten)/100*(total amount of flour)

For example, in a 360 gram mix of flour (3 cups) if better for bread flour is used, with a gluten percentage of 13.3% and gluten flour is used with a gluten percentage of 76.6% then the equations are solved for 354 grams of Better for bread and 6 grams of gluten flour, which is about two teaspoons. Some rounding is involved.

 

Peter also posed some flour proteins at Reply 70 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18075.msg184661.html#msg184661 if you are interested.

I knew California doesn’t sell bromated flours, or if they are sold or used, need labeled that the products are made with bromated flours, but didn’t know GM doesn’t sell bromated flours west of the Rockies.

Do you own a pizza business?

No, I do not own a pizza business but really wish that I did. I am an electronics engineer which should not have been too hard to spot. I no longer derive any joy from making my living as an EE. I would rather go for the instant gratification of handing somebody a pizza and getting some money in return.

My avatar picture was taken of me in my cousin's pizza parlor in NYC.

I don't have the $200K or so it would take for me to start one in California. California is kind of a miserable place to start a business anyway and the people here really don't appreciate good pizza. I mean, the way they stuff down crap from Round Table and Papa Murphy's, kind of makes me ill. They would never appreciate East coast Pizza.



Norma

[norma427]

Tom,

I didn’t mean to use VWG to change the protein if that is what you thought.  Some members don’t mind VWG added to flours for their pizzas, but some members don’t want VWG added.  I am really bad with numbers, but since you are an engineer I can see you do understand numbers and equations very well. 

Since you liked your results with Better for Bread flour you can just stick with that.

Sorry, you no longer derive any joy from making your living as an EE.  I am only in the pizza business for one day a week, but think there is gratification in being able to hand a customer a slice or whole pie.  Doing it everyday a week though is a lot harder than some members think.  Usually pizzerias also have many other types of foods to prepare other than pizza.

I thought your avatar picture was of you, but didn’t know it was taken at your cousin’s pizza business in NY. 

I am not sure about Californians not appreciating good NY style or Sicilian pizzas.  It seems like someone is always looking for a better pizza in any state.  I know it costs a lot of money for a regular pizza business though.

Norma

[miner_tom]

Tom,

I didn’t mean to use VWG to change the protein if that is what you thought.  Some members don’t mind VWG added to flours for their pizzas, but some members don’t want VWG added.  I am really bad with numbers, but since you are an engineer I can see you do understand numbers and equations very well. 

Well, the equations will work with any types of flour. I am not familiar with the acronym "VWG"?

Since you liked your results with Better for Bread flour you can just stick with that.

Sorry, you no longer derive any joy from making your living as an EE.  I am only in the pizza business for one day a week,

If I might ask, how is it that you are only in the pizza business one day a week? Is it your own business? Is it a business that sells mostly other things but does pizza one day a week?

 but think there is gratification in being able to hand a customer a slice or whole pie.  Doing it everyday a week though is a lot harder than some members think.  Usually pizzerias also have many other types of foods to prepare other than pizza.

My cousins pizza restaurant has such a large menu that it is twice the size of any Italian restaurant that I have seen in California. Most impressive.

I thought your avatar picture was of you, but didn’t know it was taken at your cousin’s pizza business in NY. 

Yes, the picture is of me. It was taken by accident. I was waiting for the pizza station to be free so that I could practice without getting in the way. While I was doing that I heard somebody say "you are a natural at it" and as I turned around, my cousins daughter snapped my picture.

I am not sure about Californians not appreciating good NY style or Sicilian pizzas.  It seems like someone is always looking for a better pizza in any state.  I know it costs a lot of money for a regular pizza business though.

Norma

[norma427]

Tom,

If you look under the Pizza Glossary http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html  and then look under Vital Wheat Gluten http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html#V you can see VWG is used to supplement other flours to increase the overall protein levels of those flours.

If you are interested, I am at Root’s Country Market and Auction and it is only opened one day a week. http://www.rootsmarket.com/  and this is my very small pizza stand that I own.  http://www.rootsmarket.com/standholders-detail.asp?Image=59 I am over 65 years old, so I am semi-retired, but still like to work.  I only make pizzas and other related products one day a week, but do go to market 2 other days to clean and prepare my dough.  At my age I sure would not want to tackle a full-time pizza business.

Your cousins pizza restaurant sounds interesting.  Do you have a link for his restaurant?  It does look like you are a natural in making pizza. 

Norma

[miner_tom]

Tom,

If you look under the Pizza Glossary http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html  and then look under Vital Wheat Gluten http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html#V you can see VWG is used to supplement other flours to increase the overall protein levels of those flours.

If you are interested, I am at Root’s Country Market and Auction and it is only opened one day a week. http://www.rootsmarket.com/  and this is my very small pizza stand that I own.  http://www.rootsmarket.com/standholders-detail.asp?Image=59 I am over 65 years old, so I am semi-retired, but still like to work.  I only make pizzas and other related products one day a week, but do go to market 2 other days to clean and prepare my dough.  At my age I sure would not want to tackle a full-time pizza business.

Your cousins pizza restaurant sounds interesting.  Do you have a link for his restaurant?  It does look like you are a natural in making pizza. 

Norma, thank you for sharing the link to your pizza stand. The resolution on my monitor is quite high and I think that I was able to zoom in and get a look at you standing in the rear, by what could be the dough machine. The web site said that you have been there since 1922, but I doubt that you have been there that long

As for a link to my cousins restaurant, well, his pizza is excellent but his internet technology leaves much to be desired. Tell you what. Here is my email address. tom_cip_11551@hotmail.com  If you send an email to my address then I will be able to send you some photos of my cousin restaurants and you will not be giving your email address to the whole world. I, on the other hand, have enough virus protections to filter out the Amazon river in full flood. Also, I have a few questions that are perhaps best discussed "off line" as we say in the industry. I mean, no need to bother the forum about "this or that". I look forward to hearing from you. Tom

Norma

[norma427]

Tom,

I haven't been at market since 1928, but my late husbands parents started the homemade Caramel Popcorn Stand in 1928.  I used to run that stand, plus a stand at another farmers market with my husband.  I also had a funnel cake stand at Root's after I sold the caramel popcorn stand.  I  have been at market around 30 years.  I have only had the pizza stand for 3 years though. When I started the pizza stand I didn't know one thing about making pizza dough.     This forum and the members are what taught me what I know about making pizza.

Norma

[norma427]

Tom,

I was thinking it over, and although I don’t mind emailing with a member, (and have emailed with some members) I think if questions are asked here on the forum about anything pizza related, then any members that might be interested can benefit from those posts.  If I would answer something wrong, then other members could and might correct me.  I sure don’t know everything about making different styles of pizzas and am still learning.  I have received many PM’s asking all kinds of questions, and although I don’t mind answering a few basic questions, I normally ask the member to post openly on the forum of what they want to know and ask the broad questions openly.  I have learned a lot more by what members post here on the forum and think other members also do learn from those posts, (other then from emailing or sending PM‘s).  Most forum members are very open in what methods they used, their formulations, bake times, ovens, etc., and so am I.  What I do and what you might want to do could be very different in the mixers we use, mix times, the type of oven, bake times, flours, etc. 

I have even gotten emails from some people that was were not members of this forum asking me to point them to exactly what I did.  I don’t know how they got my email except that I do have a pizza blog and am at market. I suggest to them to become a member of this forum and ask any questions they have on the forum.

I also still have a long way to go on my pizza making journey.

Norma

[miner_tom]

Tom,

I was thinking it over, and although I don’t mind emailing with a member, (and have emailed with some members) I think if questions are asked here on the forum about anything pizza related, then any members that might be interested can benefit from those posts. 

Norma, I only wanted to be able to send you pictures of my cousins pizza operations, as you requested. I have no way to do that other than by email, since no web pages are involved. One of these days I should put together a web site, for the sake of my profession, such as it is, but I have not yet done so.

 If I would answer something wrong, then other members could and might correct me.  I sure don’t know everything about making different styles of pizzas and am still learning.  I have received many PM’s asking all kinds of questions, and although I don’t mind answering a few basic questions, I normally ask the member to post openly on the forum of what they want to know and ask the broad questions openly.  I have learned a lot more by what members post here on the forum and think other members also do learn from those posts, (other then from emailing or sending PM‘s).  Most forum members are very open in what methods they used, their formulations, bake times, ovens, etc., and so am I.  What I do and what you might want to do could be very different in the mixers we use, mix times, the type of oven, bake times, flours, etc. 

I have even gotten emails from some people that was were not members of this forum asking me to point them to exactly what I did.  I don’t know how they got my email except that I do have a pizza blog and am at market. I suggest to them to become a member of this forum and ask any questions they have on the forum.

I also still have a long way to go on my pizza making journey.

Norma

[norma427]

Tom,

I did send you an email and asked about your cousins pizza operation, because I was interested in seeing the pictures.

Sorry if I posted some wrong.

Norma