A Word to the Wise for Newbies!

[scott123]

OK now I'm really confused.

NY style is:

3.5 to 11 minute bakes (with 6-11 being oven spring deprived/mediocre)
bromated 12.7% to 14% protein flour
58-65% hydration (close to the absorption value for the particular flour)
0-3% oil
0-2% sugar
aged whole milk mozzarella
.07 to .075 thickness factor
Fermented same day (tasteless) to as long as 3 days (commercially)
When held by the end, the tip should droop.
If using a quality cheese, the oil should drip off the tip when the tip is pointing down.
Uncooked sauce
Chewy/Puffy for shorter bakes, Crispy puffy for longer ones
Pale to slightly golden brown, with the occasional light charring, but not Neo leoparding

It can have a pale crust, like this (Chickenparm):

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19131.0;attach=55276;image

It can be a bit ashen, such as Kenji's pie.

Or it can be a bit more golden brown like Vito's:

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/07/vitos-pizza-in-los-angeles-ca.html?ref=search

Here's a good example of a nearly picture perfect 5 minute bake:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16969.msg167487.html#msg167487

My pies are closest to Vitos, although sometimes I go with more of a Bill (chickenparm) pie which is a bit closer to what I grew up with. It's all NY style, though, and, as you can see, it can vary.

[Mal]

Thanks for the formula and links to other peoples' pizzas but to go back to my original question I was really hoping to see one of your own pies to get some idea of the ideal based on the formula you advocate - to see the direct correlation between the process you describe in your highly informative posts and the results you achieve with said process. That's one of the things I find really useful on Kenji's pizza lab posts - where he shows pictures of the different outcomes along the way. Oh well. not to worry. It's probably outside the scope of this thread. Look forward to seeing them elsewhere.  Thanks again.

[Chicago Bob]

enter8,
Scott's stuff is highly confidential in case you didn't know that, takes more than 17 posts to get to see those beauties    jk.
Say, you wouldn't happen to know if Kenj has a good corndog recipe would you?

[scott123]

Enter8, if you feel like you need to see a visual representation in order to fully comprehend what I'm talking about, like I said, Vito's.  My last 8 pies were carbon copies of the Vito's slices in the Slice article.

Don't be discouraged. We all understand what a NY style slice looks like, and all the possible permutations, but most of us have been hanging around this forum for a while.  If you stick around, this will all become second nature to you. Hang in there  

[Mal]

 If you stick around, this will all become second nature to you. Hang in there  

Thanks. I plan to

There that's 18 posts! (Do I get a corn dog yet?) 

[Chicago Bob]

In due time, jamie....in due time.

[Mal]

In due time, jamie....in due time.

ok now it's my turn for a reference blank...

[Chicago Bob]

Oooops, sorry     I meant enter8   

[Mal]

Oooops, sorry     I meant enter8   

ok mate. no worries. FWIW It's actually Malakai but Mal is fine.

[Chicago Bob]

OK Mal....sounds great. Welcome, and again, sorry for the slip....

[Tscarborough]

Slice is for eaters, ie foodies, pizzamaking.com is for pizza makers.  Traffic here is probably 10x there, and is more directed to pizza.

The only people I pay attention to over there are those who also post here.  Kenji is an idiot.  Just kidding, kidding!  I have never tried any of his recipes nor will I ever, but apparently he does know at least tangentially what he is talking about.

[Tscarborough]

Scot, pics or it never happened.  Cell phone pics are fine, let's see what you got.

[Chicago Bob]

Could someone please explain to me the need to try to corral member Scott into a corner?
I notice that he tries to genuinely attempt to help many with their bake problems here and there is no denying that the man knows his stuff in particular areas. And, like most of us ,he can at times be very adamant about his thoughts/feelings.....this ain't no witch hunt and I really wish this silliness would stop.

[Tscarborough]

Well, for me it is like this.  I know that he is a really nice guy in real life, and obviously knows his stuff about NY pizza.  At some point, however, you have to back that up with results, and in the digital age that means pictures.  How hard is it to post a picture of a pizza along with the workflow and recipe?  In this thread alone it has been suggested that that is a minimum for a newb, much less for a member who has been here for years and offered not only support but criticism of others.

Pics or it never happened.

[Chicago Bob]

In this thread alone it has been suggested that that is a minimum for a newb, much less for a member who has been here for years and offered not only support but criticism of others.

Pics or it never happened.

If Scott is the one that suggested that Tom, then I apologize sir. Otherwise I call bs! One should be free to take, accept, give or ignore compliments or criticism on this forum and as long as it all washes out in a non-hurtful manner then shouldn't one be left free to do so without stipulations or requirements...?

[Tscarborough]

I don't know that he has, Bob, to be truthful, but my criteria is pretty simple:

If you offer criticism, then you need to back it up via your personal experience in the medium of your criticism.  I have no use for critics who are experts, for example, of pizza making by eating pizza.  If you claim to be an expert in pizza making, then let us see your pizza.  If you claim to be an expert in eating pizza, then so be it your opinion is what it is.

[Chicago Bob]

You know Tom, I believe you are an expert in masonry and building an awesome pizza oven too. I am not. But if I was to see an out of set brick in one of your ovens, and while pointing this out to you I did not do it in an intentionaly embarrasing way.....would you call me out an say " Bob, show me pics of the ovens you've built" ?

[Tscarborough]

Nope, and I do not see how that applies.  Scott lays down ironclad rules, criticizes those who do not abide, but provides no credentials other than opinion.  That is fine for a critic, but he also then says as a pizza maker, paraphrasing, if you want to see my pizza, look at this professional pizza.  That don't fly.

FYI, looking at the photos of the floor laid on Gene's oven, there are 3 brick laid out of course, one whole, 2 halves, can you find them?

[Chicago Bob]

FYI, looking at the photos of the floor laid on Gene's oven, there are 3 brick laid out of course, one whole, 2 halves, can you find them?

I already did....
I regret now if I have perpetuated this can of worms and will defer to your experiences on this matter. I have not been here all that long and have not witnessed an "ironclad" style such as you mention....even still though, at the end of the day, I don't believe he is detrimental to the good of this forum. And as such, no one with good qualities as this should ever be placed in a put up or shut up scenario...

[Tscarborough]

Hell no he is not detrimental to the forum! He is and has been an asset all along. There comes a time when you have to put up or shut up through, and it is time.  He said if you want to see my pizza, then see this <commercial pizza>.  That is the point when it is time to post a picture and a recipe and a workflow to lend credence.

I am not calling him out, I do not really care one way or the other as my opinion of him is set.