Author Topic: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!  (Read 8741 times)

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Offline pizzaoven dot com

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2012, 01:41:25 PM »
I always get a chuckle when a new person comes on, introduces themself and then asks how to make pizza expecting one persons response to solve all their problems. It's not that easy folks, take advantage of the wealth of information and knowledge that is present here, but don't try to take advantage of the members who provide it. A little reading and research into all the material that is here in the various forum topics would go along way toward solving most peoples problems, but many think they will take a "short cut", ask a very broad question and instantly get an answer that will have them making great pizza. You gotta do a little work yourself, his is a forum, not a free lunch! ::)

Well said, everyone has to put in time to create perfection. There is so much information on this site I am sure it is easy to get lost.

Christina Koller
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 08:59:53 PM by Pete-zza »
Christina Koller


Offline bfguilford

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2012, 04:05:07 PM »
No. I'm still here for you.  ;D  There are several meat-free folks here for whom I have the utmost respect. I just don't understand all ya'lls choices. I mean, a great Margherita is my favorite pie, however this is on the pit as we speak...



Thanks, Craig. Just kidding. Now, if that slab on the right was salmon... yum!

Barry
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2012, 06:04:23 PM »
Thanks, Craig. Just kidding. Now, if that slab on the right was salmon... yum!

Barry

So, you are one of those "vegetarians." We have a bunch of sockeye salmon on the grill two nights ago and some great salmon salad (from the leftovers) for lunch today.

CL
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline bfguilford

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2012, 09:05:38 PM »
So, you are one of those "vegetarians." We have a bunch of sockeye salmon on the grill two nights ago and some great salmon salad (from the leftovers) for lunch today.

CL

Ah, Grasshoppah... never said I was a vegetarian... just that I don't eat meat (or grasshoppers).
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2012, 09:47:16 PM »
I think the term is "piscaterian", as in "fish-eater".  Personally as an avid diver and fishkeeper, I don't see any distinction between land animals and water animals as far as worthiness to live un-munched upon by our species is concerned.  Fish have personality, believe it or not.   

Land animal, water animal: hey they're all mighty tasty, but I do try to avoid eating the endangered ones.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2012, 10:30:15 PM »
To me, fish is meat. I believe we are the stewards of all animals. We should be respectful and not waste, but as long as we meet those conditions, it is OK to eat them. Just my $0.02.

CL
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

parallei

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2012, 10:57:11 PM »
Fish are meat to me also.  The way I see it, people choose not to eat meat for ethical, health or aesthetic reasons.

I hunt and kill birds.  When I stop to think about it (which I don't do often enough), I have greater ethical and aesthetic problems with buying meat at the butcher or grocery store.  These problems include, primarily, the industrial manner and conditions in which animals are often raised for slaughter.  I think it odd that most people are completely disconnected from where their meat comes from.  If nothing else, when I kill something for the table myself, I can hold it in my hands and understand what is really occurring.  
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 10:59:29 PM by parallei »

Offline bfguilford

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2012, 11:15:07 PM »
Wow... I didn't mean to take this thread off on such a tangent.  :-[  

I used to love a good hunk o' meat, done really, really rare. I stopped eating it for health reasons (thanks, Mom, for the high cholesterol :'( ), and have never advocated that anyone else stop eating meat (here or anywhere else). If I were to start again, it would be locally raised, grass-fed... personal choice.

Now, back to the original topic of the thread, which I believe was " a word to the wise for newbies".

Barry
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 11:19:23 PM by bfguilford »
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2012, 11:24:29 PM »
I think (positively) that this tangent just goes to show the respectful, yet light-hearted nature of our open discourse.  We disagree on many things, yet at the same time we find that we are actually in agreement in principle.

So, let's chalk it up as an example of why this this is a great forum, and an example to new people in behavior when discussing a divisive topic. 

*needs confucious icon*  :)
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

parallei

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2012, 11:26:01 PM »
Quote
Now, back to the original topic of the thread, which I believe was " a word to the wise for newbies"

O.K. How's this: "Tangents Happen" ;D


Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2012, 12:01:40 PM »
Back to the topic at hand, why don't people do a little experimenting and figure some stuff out for themselves. It seems like every thread lately is someone asking how to do this of that, or how much of this or that, or how long for this or that! C'mon man, do a little homework and experimenting and figure out what end is up. Everyone is lazy, they want a shortcut to success. Nobody can figure stuff out for themselves anymore, they all want to be led by the hand. A legit question is fine, but some of these people want it all on a silver platter. Get my drift! Rant over! >:D

cornicione54

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2012, 12:17:41 PM »
Back to the topic at hand, why don't people do a little experimenting and figure some stuff out for themselves. It seems like every thread lately is someone asking how to do this of that, or how much of this or that, or how long for this or that! C'mon man, do a little homework and experimenting and figure out what end is up. Everyone is lazy, they want a shortcut to success. Nobody can figure stuff out for themselves anymore, they all want to be led by the hand. A legit question is fine, but some of these people want it all on a silver platter. Get my drift! Rant over! >:D

That's a bit much isn't it - calling everyone "lazy"?

Sorry but I disagree. What I suspect is closer to the truth:_ people have unrealistic expectations of what they can achieve as a first-time pizza maker. Making people aware of the pitfalls, setting realistic expectations and explaining what went wrong if (and when) they make mistakes is far more helpful than having a rant at them because it bothers/annoys you.

Even if your assertion that people want things on a "silver platter" is accurate - perhaps it would be a worthy challenge to the more experienced pizzamaker to think about how one can present a formula/process/method in a more "foolproof" manner?  Being an effective teacher is a completely different skill to geeking out over pizza.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 12:39:55 PM by cornicione54 »

Offline SinoChef

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2012, 01:03:22 PM »

For China, if it moves, crawls, slithers,snakes or twitches. I have eaten it. As Bourdian says in his cooks tour book from 01. If your slower and dumber then me......"Hey, pass the salt"

I think he has had a change of heart since then.

I am Zimmerman. I will eat it.

The line is drawn at dog. They do have these pig dogs they breed here. What a hypocrite you all are if you dont get down on one. Its a commodity animal, like your bucket of KFC. What? one is more sentient then the other?

Dogs are breed like pigs here.

Why I wont go for it, as I have eaten just about every living thing on this planet?

Ever see a Golden Retriever with its head crushed in, yet still alive as it gets skinned outside your apartment window?

if it was a chicken, ok. If it is a family pet, with little kids praying to Buddah that Spot comes back home soon...

I can not support that industry. Ever.



Offline pizzaneer

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2012, 06:42:21 PM »
Gets my ditto, and my stomach went upside down reading that.  But that still is tangential to the discussion at hand. And that should be the creation of a new sticky topic, giving a few well-considered tips to the beginning member or lurker.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline petef

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2012, 07:18:51 PM »
Many years ago when I first joined pizzamaking.com I was also overwhelmed with the vast amount of information amongst all the different forums. So I do get that and I understand the frustration of the newcomers that arrive looking for quick answers to their problems.

Perhaps making use of more sticky posts in each forum would serve new and old members alike to answer those frequently asked questions. However, instead of putting that responsibility on the forum moderators, perhaps we could encourage our members to be on the lookout for certain threads or posts that would be most suitable to serve as a sticky post and have the members nominate them. We could also encourage members to consolidate useful info from various posts and submit it for use as a sticky post with the approval of the moderators. Just an idea.

On the other hand, the thing I like about pizzamaking.com is that the information you need is all here within the thousands of posts, but it's not always easy to find and requires that you pay your dues by searching, reading, experimenting, and being a good citizen so that others will help you. In other words, it's esoteric,  it filters out the non-serious types, and attracts the most dedicated and helpful folks interested in making pizza.

---pete---


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2012, 08:52:47 PM »
I am actually sympathetic to what both Dave and Cornicione have said, and I also think that petef hit the nail on the head in some of his comments.

In many respects, the forum is a victim of its own success. When I officially joined the forum, in 2004, there were about 200 members. A good month was about 45 new topics. I was perhaps one of the early "teachers" on the forum. As such, I had no problem keeping up with the volume. Much of that volume was newbies volume. Fast forward to where we are today, there are now 17,552 members "on the books" and in a typical month we can get over 400 topics. And we are operating at a rate where we can expect around 55,000 new posts for all of 2012. In my opinion, where we have not kept pace is in the number of members who are what I would call "teachers". We have had some very good teachers in the past, and some very good ones at the present, but perhaps not enough to support the current volume of posts. One way the Moderators have tried to address this problem is to suggest to new members that they use the forum's two search engines. We also refer them to the forum's Pizza Glossary at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html. Steve, the owner of the forum, took this to a higher level with his thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15262.msg150578.html#msg150578, where he urges new members to familiarize themselves with the "terms and lingo" used on the forum.

It is not clear how many new members read the Pizza Glossary. There will always be some people who will want to short circuit the glossary and the search engines and just pose their questions. That approach is bound to offend some of our other members, who no doubt will consider the questioners to be lazy. Yet, to petef's point, I know how difficult it is to navigate the forum's content, whether for newbies or for the regulars. I try to address this problem as much as possible by referring members to posts that have covered the subject matter in question. Many of those posts are my own, which I have created over a period of almost eight years, and I can find them quite easily--more easily and faster than the posts of others--because I know the "keywords" I use in composing my posts. Norma has also been a big help in doing the same sort of thing. Sporadically, other members do likewise. Even for me, keeping up with the forum's volume of activity has been a real challenge since part of my job as a Moderator is to look at all posts, which is a chore that takes up a good part of my time on the forum, leaving me less and less time to devote to everything else I do. Unfortunately, it is also hard to determine who is just lazy and who is sincere and who deserves a good response and who doesn't.

The idea of using FAQs and the like has come up before. Unfortunately, that usually means that the persons who create the FAQs have to be the best "teachers". And, even with such a document, whether it is a "sticky" or not, and whether Steve directs new members to that document also, there would be no assurance that new members wouldn't bypass that document also and go right for the jugular. That means that members who might be thinking of helping the new member have to make a judgment about helping the new member or not.

Peter


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2012, 09:07:54 PM »
In other words, it's esoteric,  it filters out the non-serious types, and attracts the most dedicated and helpful folks interested in making pizza.

---pete---


That is a bit of an oxymoron, yet it does quite well in expressing the conundrum of this " sticky topic"  ;)   Everyone wants to be nice and helpful, sure, but I think some of this repetitive instruction saps away time(from those attempting to help) that could have otherwise been spent for the betterment of the "whole".

You suggest some great ideas pete and if they come to fruition I, for one, will be most happy to volunteer some time to help out any way I can. Count me in....   ;)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline petef

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2012, 09:47:29 PM »
It is not clear how many new members read the Pizza Glossary. There will always be some people who will want to short circuit the glossary and the search engines and just pose their questions. That approach is bound to offend some of our other members, who no doubt will consider the questioners to be lazy. Yet, to petef's point, I know how difficult it is to navigate the forum's content, whether for newbies or for the regulars. I try to address this problem as much as possible by referring members to posts that have covered the subject matter in question.


Peter, it always amazes me how you come up with links to previous posts when responding to others. I often find it very difficult to find my own posts or specific content using the forum's search feature.

As for locating specific content, I find Google Advanced Search most useful
when I specify it to search pizzamaking.com
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en

As for helping others, the most efficient way is to refer them to previous threads, the glossary, or sticky posts. If you think further into the future, you could eventually combine the glossary with all the sticky posts to create an electronic publication that you could sell to members on a DVD as a means to finance the forum. 

---pete---

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2012, 09:52:48 PM »
On this board, I am not able to teach, since my only knowledge of cooking is by doing, but on other boards that relate to my industry, I do try and help the new posters, but even then I do not invest much time in their questions until I see that they have invested the time to do some research first.

If they can not frame the question in a specific manner then I let it pass. As an example, this comes up pretty frequently on a couple of boards, "I want to stucco my house, can you tell me how?"  I can, as a matter of fact, but I won't based on that query.

cornicione54

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Re: A Word to the Wise for Newbies!
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2012, 10:02:01 PM »
On this board, I am not able to teach, since my only knowledge of cooking is by doing, but on other boards that relate to my industry, I do try and help the new posters, but even then I do not invest much time in their questions until I see that they have invested the time to do some research first.

If they can not frame the question in a specific manner then I let it pass. As an example, this comes up pretty frequently on a couple of boards, "I want to stucco my house, can you tell me how?"  I can, as a matter of fact, but I won't based on that query.

I realise your time is precious, but if you feel someone has not yet "invested the time", then perhaps you could offer links to resources and information relevant to the query?


 

pizzapan