Author Topic: What IDY %?  (Read 1508 times)

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Offline bicster

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What IDY %?
« on: June 27, 2012, 10:56:49 PM »
Friends,

I am finally transitioning from the world of NY style to Neapolitan style. 

I was wondering if the collective genius of our forum could recommend a good IDY percentage given the following:

100% Caputo Blue Flour
60% hydration
3% sea salt

Initial 45 second mix of flour and water, then a 20-30m "autolyse" after which I will add the yeast then shortly thereafter the sea salt. 

Hoping to room temp bulk ferment for 24h (around 65ish degrees), then 24h balled.   I plan on making 5 balls, 250-260g each.

They will be cooked in a WFO.

Thank you for all the help I am about to receive.



Offline dellavecchia

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2012, 06:29:57 AM »
Your percentage of IDY for 48 hours of room temp fermentation will be very, very small. Around .02% or less (confirming decimal - .02%). It depends on the temp of your balled stage. I did a long fermentation with fresh yeast here at .075% - the salt was confirmed to be the wrong amount in the original post, should be close to 3%:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12606.0.html

Let us know how things turn out, and welcome to the NP world!

John

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2012, 06:33:40 AM »
Also, you want Caputo Pizzeria for your flour, NOT the "Extra", also in a blue bag.

John

Offline JConk007

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2012, 08:17:45 AM »
Bicster,
I have to  really watch and control my dough if I blow it , the parties off!! and I am in deep do do. I currrently use .15%IDY and bulk rise for 4-7 hours around 70+ degrees. Ball and fridge 1-2 days My  dough prep area has been up in the high 70's so I cannot  go for so long.  earlier this year I was doing up to 12- 17 hours bulk at around 58-65 and I loved it ! According to Larry the Zaman and Antimo Caputo you only need 20Min bulk and you can then ball ? If you ball after say 12 hrs and watch it, if it starts to blow you can allways go to the fridge Unless there is a reason you want 48 hours room temp ? you are a brave man going for the 48 hrs out of the box!! took me years before I would even do 4 hrs @room temp.
Keep us  in the loop !
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline Tory

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2012, 08:36:20 AM »
Hello,

I'd sort of like to know how to measure such small amounts of ingredients. I use a scale, but it certainly doesn't measure anything very small.

Is there a good scale available that will measure very tiny amounts, or maybe even percentages?

Offline CJ

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2012, 09:30:54 AM »
RCBS or Dillion reloading scale. Cabelas, online or a good gun shop.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2012, 09:59:38 AM »
I'd sort of like to know how to measure such small amounts of ingredients. I use a scale, but it certainly doesn't measure anything very small.

Is there a good scale available that will measure very tiny amounts, or maybe even percentages?

If you can measure to 0.1g resolution, it is easy to measure to 0.01g resolution or even better.

Dissolve 1.0 g yeast in 99.0g water then use 2.0g of the resulting mixture and you will have 0.02g yeast (+/- 0.001g). Don't forget to reduce your formula water by the amount of your water here - in this case 2g. The math is easily adjusted for other amounts.

If you can only measure to 1g resolution, the method above could have an error as much as +/- 0.01g. In this case, you might want to look into a better scale. A scale such as this one: http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-AMW-2000-Digital-Jewelry/dp/B000OIRSSU/?tag=pizzamaking-20

You could still do it with a scale that only had 1.0g resolution, but I would probably go bigger with my measurements to minimize the effect of measurement error something like 5g yeast dissolved in 1245g water and use 5g of the resulting mixture. That would reduce your measurement error to +/- 0.002g

If I was doing any of this, I would hold back a little of my formula water to use to rinse the container that held my yeast mixture into the dough to be sure I didn't leave any yeast behind. You are not adding much yeast and I wouldn't want to miss any.

I would probably not recommend starting this small.

If you do go with a reloading scale, it will measure in grains not grams. 1 gram = 15.4 grains.

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

Offline bicster

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2012, 10:21:55 AM »
Your percentage of IDY for 48 hours of room temp fermentation will be very, very small. Around .02% or less (confirming decimal - .02%). It depends on the temp of your balled stage. I did a long fermentation with fresh yeast here at .075% - the salt was confirmed to be the wrong amount in the original post, should be close to 3%:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12606.0.html

Let us know how things turn out, and welcome to the NP world!

John

Thank you John. 

---
That is such a freakishly small amount of yeast.  I think I am going to purchase this today for measuring:

http://www.amazon.com/RCBS-Reloading-Scale-Weighs-9071/dp/B001AYWXEQ/?tag=pizzamaking-20

I'm excited I will get to use all of the apothecary measurements I learned oh so long ago!

---

I double checked and my flour is indeed the Pizzeria, so I am good there.

----

I hope to proof the balls around 65ish degrees.  For this weekend they will be balled in oiled, glass pyrex containers, in a portable coleman cooler with frozen bottles of water to keep them company.  Next month, when I have a little more free time, I plan on purchasing a chest freezer controlled by this:

http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Controls-Digital-Thermostat-Control/dp/B00368D6JA/?tag=pizzamaking-20

Offline bicster

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2012, 10:27:28 AM »
Bicster,
I have to  really watch and control my dough if I blow it , the parties off!! and I am in deep do do. I currrently use .15%IDY and bulk rise for 4-7 hours around 70+ degrees. Ball and fridge 1-2 days My  dough prep area has been up in the high 70's so I cannot  go for so long.  earlier this year I was doing up to 12- 17 hours bulk at around 58-65 and I loved it ! According to Larry the Zaman and Antimo Caputo you only need 20Min bulk and you can then ball ? If you ball after say 12 hrs and watch it, if it starts to blow you can allways go to the fridge Unless there is a reason you want 48 hours room temp ? you are a brave man going for the 48 hrs out of the box!! took me years before I would even do 4 hrs @room temp.
Keep us  in the loop !
John

Sage advice John, I appreciate it. 

May I ask how you measure your .15%?  Now that I think of it, I suppose since you are working in much larger batches your numbers aren't as infinitesimally small as mine will be!

I am leaning towards 48 hours partially to emulate my pizza hero Craig.

So regarding your 12-17h bulk:  After the bulk, how long did you proof them as balls and at what temperature?  What % of IDY did you use?

Offline bicster

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2012, 10:29:38 AM »
If you can measure to 0.1g resolution, it is easy to measure to 0.01g resolution or even better.

Dissolve 1.0 g yeast in 99.0g water then use 2.0g of the resulting mixture and you will have 0.02g yeast (+/- 0.001g). Don't forget to reduce your formula water by the amount of your water here - in this case 2g. The math is easily adjusted for other amounts.

If you can only measure to 1g resolution, the method above could have an error as much as +/- 0.01g. In this case, you might want to look into a better scale. A scale such as this one: http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-AMW-2000-Digital-Jewelry/dp/B000OIRSSU

You could still do it with a scale that only had 1.0g resolution, but I would probably go bigger with my measurements to minimize the effect of measurement error something like 5g yeast dissolved in 1245g water and use 5g of the resulting mixture. That would reduce your measurement error to +/- 0.002g

If I was doing any of this, I would hold back a little of my formula water to use to rinse the container that held my yeast mixture into the dough to be sure I didn't leave any yeast behind. You are not adding much yeast and I wouldn't want to miss any.

I would probably not recommend starting this small.

If you do go with a reloading scale, it will measure in grains not grams. 1 gram = 15.4 grains.

Craig

There is no scale that can measure the value of your contributions to this forum.


Offline Jet_deck

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2012, 10:52:05 AM »
There is no scale that can measure the value of your contributions to this forum.

+100 :)
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2012, 11:02:49 AM »
There is no scale that can measure the value of your contributions to this forum.

You are too kind.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline bicster

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2012, 01:28:53 PM »
Your percentage of IDY for 48 hours of room temp fermentation will be very, very small. Around .02% or less (confirming decimal - .02%). It depends on the temp of your balled stage. I did a long fermentation with fresh yeast here at .075% - the salt was confirmed to be the wrong amount in the original post, should be close to 3%:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12606.0.html

Let us know how things turn out, and welcome to the NP world!

John

John thank you for pointing out your thread to me.  It is a brilliant, fascinating, and beautiful read. 

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2012, 01:57:05 PM »
John thank you for pointing out your thread to me.  It is a brilliant, fascinating, and beautiful read. 

You are very welcome.

John

Offline CJ

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2012, 06:02:27 PM »
Quote from: bicster link= Next month, when I have a little more free time, I plan on purchasing a chest freezer controlled by this:

[url
http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Controls-Digital-Thermostat-Control/dp/B00368D6JA/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top[/url]


Instead of chest freezer, for curing of meat we use fridge with holes cut into it because fridge gets too cold.
Same controls you show at amazon
Screens over holes to keep flies out, we add humidifier for control on meat, may not need or want for dough.
Used fridge cheep on Craig's list. You may also add fan inside for faster chill on open dough box's, but watch you do not over dry the balls. I hate over dry balls!

Offline bicster

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2012, 02:14:29 AM »
Great idea CJ but I need simple, quick, and dirty.  Sounds too time consuming!

Offline bicster

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Re: What IDY %?
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2012, 02:22:07 AM »
So the wood fired oven will not be available this weekend and the prospect of my own personal one is locked up in an eternal battle with my home owners association. 

That being said, I will be stuck doing it the new-old-fashioned way of the home oven.  I really want to crack open the Caputo however so I have devised the following just for shi-- and giggles.

65% KABF 35% Caputo (614g total)
60% H20 (368g)
3% sea salt (18.4g)
0.05% IDY (0.31g)
maybe 1% EVOO, havent decided yet (6.14g)

Yield: 4, 250g balls of Neo-Neapolitan-New Yorky goodness

24h bulk ferment at around 65 degrees then a 6h balled final proof at about the same temp, maybe 72 degrees

We shall see how it goes.


 

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