Is Chicago Pizza Supposed to Taste like Waffles/Burned Corn?

[Puzzolento]

I have been fooling around with Chicago pizza. The problem: I've never had the real thing. I ate at Uno once, and it was pretty bad. I'm told their pizza isn't a good example of the type.

I tried the Malnati recipe posted at the Food Network. I thought it was ridiculous. Like a big dry biscuit. It was good, but not nearly as good as New York style Sicilian. Then I tried the dough recipe from Cook's Illustrated, which contains corn meal and butter. You fold the dough after buttering it, and you let it rise, and then you spread it in the pan. That gives you layers. You bake at 425 for at least 30 minutes.

I'll post a photo of the Cook's Illustrated pizza. It looked fantastic, but the crust tasted sort of like a waffle, and it also tasted like burned corn. It was flaky, and it fell apart, but I threw out most of the pizza because of the gross corn flavor. I think it would have been fine, but for the corn.

Here's what I want to know: is the problem that the recipes are bad, or is it just that I don't like Chicago pizza? Does the flavor profile I described sound like the real thing?

I can't link to Cook's Illustrated, because it's a pay site, but here's the same dough recipe: http://marthasrecipevault.blogspot.com/2011/01/chicago-style-deep-dish-pizza-makes-two.html

[vcb]

I have been fooling around with Chicago pizza. The problem: I've never had the real thing. I ate at Uno once, and it was pretty bad. I'm told their pizza isn't a good example of the type.

I'm guessing you don't mean Pizzeria Uno, but one of the Uno's Chicago Grill chain restaurants.
Read this: http://www.realdeepdish.com/2010/05-05-pizza-rant-4-dish-deep-or-rant-hard

I tried the Malnati recipe posted at the Food Network. I thought it was ridiculous. Like a big dry biscuit. It was good, but not nearly as good as New York style Sicilian. Then I tried the dough recipe from Cook's Illustrated, which contains corn meal and butter. You fold the dough after buttering it, and you let it rise, and then you spread it in the pan. That gives you layers. You bake at 425 for at least 30 minutes.

I'll post a photo of the Cook's Illustrated pizza. It looked fantastic, but the crust tasted sort of like a waffle, and it also tasted like burned corn. It was flaky, and it fell apart, but I threw out most of the pizza because of the gross corn flavor. I think it would have been fine, but for the corn.

Here's what I want to know: is the problem that the recipes are bad, or is it just that I don't like Chicago pizza? Does the flavor profile I described sound like the real thing?

I can't link to Cook's Illustrated, because it's a pay site, but here's the same dough recipe: http://marthasrecipevault.blogspot.com/2011/01/chicago-style-deep-dish-pizza-makes-two.html

Others can elaborate, but yes, you've followed recipes that aren't entirely accurate.
If you see a deep dish recipe and it has cornmeal in it, find a new recipe. It won't give you what your looking for.
Now, Read This: http://www.realdeepdish.com/2009/05-06-pizza-rant-2-6-pat-bruno-im-calling-you-out

If you want the real lowdown on deep dish pizza, keep digging through these forums,
as a lot of people here have posted deep dish info that will help you make something more authentic.
You can also read the rest of the PIZZA RANTS and the DEEP DISH 101 series on my site RealDeepDish.com , which should help you get the general concepts.

Good luck with your future pizzas and
Welcome to the forums!   

[pizzaneer]

I like your rants.  Have you thought about branching out, rant-wise? I'm sure there's lots to be said about all the other kinds of the world's most popular food...  for instance, chain pizzerias.  Almost everyone has an opinion about Domino's.

[vcb]

I like your rants.  Have you thought about branching out, rant-wise? I'm sure there's lots to be said about all the other kinds of the world's most popular food...  for instance, chain pizzerias.  Almost everyone has an opinion about Domino's.

Thanks, Pizzaneer.
I haven't done a pizza-chain specific rant that I can recall, but there's certainly plenty of fodder for a new rant, although I am a bit overdue for my next chapter of Deep Dish 101.
Lately, I've been working on another part of the food chain: BACON, who's been doing a lot of ranting on twitter @Bacon4Pres
You can also find him at Bacon4President.com. 

[pizzaneer]

I can only say, the world would be a better place if more people knew how to make their own bacon.   I'm self-employed, and I'm used to doing the project research to make my goals happen.  If more people could do that, then there would a lot less welfare benefits coming out of our taxes. Politics aside, check out this thread for some real DIY bacony goodness:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19728.msg193436.html#msg193436

[Puzzolento]

I'm not shooting for "deep dish" per se. Just Chicago style. I already make a New York style Sicilian I wouldn't change for the world. I don't know if people consider that "deep dish." It's a nice thick-crust pizza made in a rectangular pan, like the stuff they sell at cheap pizzerias in New York.

I also tried semolina in the dough. Smelled like Graham crackers.

The "Uno" I went to is a chain. I can't remember where it was. I think it may have been in Lexington, Kentucky, but it's possible it was in Miami. Very strange pizza. Not very good.

A number of people who are familiar with Chicago-style pizza are telling me it's just not very good, period. That you have to be raised on it to like it. Can't say, since I can't find it near me.

Thanks for the info. I'll look at the links.

[pizzaneer]

It's pretty much a given if you like Sicilian, you'll like CDD.  A bit different with the topping order, but similar process and taste.  Good luck, and post some pics!
 

[Puzzolento]

Reading your rants. I respect anyone who realizes Bobby Flay can't cook. He recommends cooking prime rib at 325.

Now my blood pressure is going up.

[vcb]

I'm not shooting for "deep dish" per se. Just Chicago style. I already make a New York style Sicilian I wouldn't change for the world. I don't know if people consider that "deep dish." It's a nice thick-crust pizza made in a rectangular pan, like the stuff they sell at cheap pizzerias in New York.

I also tried semolina in the dough. Smelled like Graham crackers.

The "Uno" I went to is a chain. I can't remember where it was. I think it may have been in Lexington, Kentucky, but it's possible it was in Miami. Very strange pizza. Not very good.

A number of people who are familiar with Chicago-style pizza are telling me it's just not very good, period. That you have to be raised on it to like it. Can't say, since I can't find it near me.

Thanks for the info. I'll look at the links.

When you say Chicago Style, most people think of Deep Dish, but actually there are three distinctive styles of Chicago pizza.
One more link for you: http://www.realdeepdish.com/2011/12-29-deep-dish-101-lesson-3-chicago-pizza-styles-and-maybe-a-dough-recipe

As far as liking or not liking a regional style of pizza, everyone has their own perspective on what good pizza tastes like. I'd never been overly impressed with New York style pizza, but that's probably because I grew up with Chicago thin crust, which I prefer. It's not that its bad (it isn't), but I never really considered big foldy NY style slices anything special.

[Puzzolento]

I was thinking I might try the Cook's Illustrated recipe again, omitting the nasty corn. But it seems like the dough gets awfully dark after 30 minutes at 425.

[pizzaneer]

AAAAAND NOW THE CONTENDERS STEP INTO THE RING!  IN THIS CORNER, VCB, MASTER OF CHICAGO DEEEEEP-DISH!!!  AND COMING INTO DE RING IS DE NEEW JOOISEY KING OF NEW YORK STYLE DROOPY SLICES... SCOTT123!!!!

let the bakeoff BEGIN!

 

[vcb]

I was thinking I might try the Cook's Illustrated recipe again, omitting the nasty corn. But it seems like the dough gets awfully dark after 30 minutes at 425.

Do yourself a favor and use my recipe on that last link I gave you, or find one of the many good dough percentage recipes from the great people on here.
Cook's Illustrated misses the mark on deep dish.

[vcb]

AAAAAND NOW THE CONTENDERS STEP INTO THE RING!  IN THIS CORNER, VCB, MASTER OF CHICAGO DEEEEEP-DISH!!!  AND COMING INTO DE RING IS DE NEEW JOOISEY KING OF NEW YORK STYLE DROOPY SLICES... SCOTT123!!!!

let the bakeoff BEGIN!

 

he he he 

I ain't startin' a NY vs Chicago war in here. (I already sorta did that on RealDeepDish.com)   

[Puzzolento]

I didn't see the recipe the first time around. Thanks. That will be helpful.

I notice you don't go for extra virgin oil. It's funny; I cooked with that stuff for years before I finally realized it burns and tastes bad. You would think the genius celebrity chefs on TV would know that, but they seem to go right on cooking with it.

I use the cheap crap from Gordon Food Service, or Berio "sauteeing and grilling" oil, which is probably the same grade of pomace oil.

[parallei]

Read through this:http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480.0.html  all of it.

or check out VCB's site.  Give them a try........

[vcb]

I didn't see the recipe the first time around. Thanks. That will be helpful.

I notice you don't go for extra virgin oil. It's funny; I cooked with that stuff for years before I finally realized it burns and tastes bad. You would think the genius celebrity chefs on TV would know that, but they seem to go right on cooking with it.

I use the cheap crap from Gordon Food Service, or Berio "sauteeing and grilling" oil, which is probably the same grade of pomace oil.

Yeah, you can blame Rachael Ray for the overuse of EVOO in cooking on TV.
Most chefs using it add it toward the end of cooking or during a quick sauté.

You're baking these deep dish bad boys for 40 minutes at high temps. It doesn't make sense to use extra virgin.

I like corn oil and sometimes do a mix of corn oil and regular olive oil.

[Puzzolento]

I really hate the Food Network. It's like they're on a mission to stamp out decent food.

[mrmojo1]

speaking of burned corn.  i posted this last summer on the aurelios thread, (another famous chicago thin crust pizzeria).  i grilled corn last summer salt pepper butter turn repeat, and when it was done, i carried the pile of grilled corn on the cob into the house and the smell i swear to god was aurelios.  i had just had some frozen shipped and consumed a few weeks prior.  the smell stopped me in my tracks.  so, i dont know what it is, does aurelios use a lot of corn oil, butter in their crust? is there corn flour in the dough?  i worked there as a kid in 86, and i dont remember ever seeing corn meal in the restaurant, nor on the bottom of the pizza, nor was there any on the frozen pizzas?  i wish some one else would experience it and tell me im not insane!  or i guess if you guys want to you, can call me insane too!  really doesnt matter, its all good fun!

[scott123]

let the bakeoff BEGIN!

How would we ever make this a fair battle?  Should I be blindfolded? One hand tied behind my back? Both hands?  

Don't make me stretch a pizza with my feet  

[Garvey]

Such a bake off is idiotic.  It's like comparing Beethoven to Beatles.  Both are great and cross comparisons are meaningless.  Compare Bach and Beethoven, if you must, or Stones and Beatles, if that's your thing, but deep dish and NY are two separate beasts, and "comparisons" are just tribal grunting.

Apart from all that noise, Puzzolento, try VCB's recipe.  It's the real deal.