Author Topic: Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature  (Read 2290 times)

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Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature
« on: October 01, 2012, 01:25:05 PM »
For outdoor pizza ovens ( any type, especially grill insert type ), I am trying to find out how the oudtoor temperature affect the oven baking temperature.

Do you experience lower oven temperature in the winter vs summer? faster heat loss?
Bert,


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2012, 01:28:19 PM »
Yes, when I was baking in this: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9614.0.html, if the ambient temperature dropped much below 70F, it was a real struggle to get a good looking pie. Above 90F worked great.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2012, 01:46:04 PM »
Craig, how about WFOs in general? is there any noticeable changes between summer and winter? more fire required... faster heat loss.

Bert,

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2012, 02:03:11 PM »
I used MPO yesterday at 70 - 72 outdoor temp. With 25000 btu, I wasn't able to get the bottom stone over 525 and the upper stone stayed in the low 500s. My baking time was longer, about 8 minutes, and I didn't get the char I used to get when the weather was hotter. I was experimenting with lower hydration 63% and no oil.
Bert,

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2012, 03:30:12 PM »
Craig, how about WFOs in general? is there any noticeable changes between summer and winter? more fire required... faster heat loss.



All ovens are going to be different, but in general I would say yes to both. It's easier to overcome in a WFO (mine anyway) than with a grill.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2012, 05:02:54 PM »
is there any noticeable changes between summer and winter? more fire required... faster heat loss.

The difference in ambient temp where I live between summer and winter can be 80 degrees, so I need to produce enough additional energy in winter to raise the oven's mass by that amount. But it is more complicated than that in the winter since the air flowing into the fire from the opening is still very cold regardless of the temp of the oven. I don't measure such things carefully, but in the summer it takes 3-4 hours vs. 4-5 hours in the winter to fully fire.

 

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2012, 10:23:09 AM »
Using lidless grill and just 2 burners , 25000 BTU total, at 72 deg outdoor temp, MPO temp didn't change after one hour or 2 hours. The temperature stayed the same. Usually at warmer weather, MPO gets to a baking temp within 30 minute and gets hotter with time.

Hopefully this weekend the weather will be cool like last weekend, I want to see if it make a difference to turn all 4 burners on. Two burners will be right under MPO and for the other two burners, I will cover the grates with foil. I am not sure if that will channel sufficient heat into MPO. I will be testing my latest prototype, which has no opening except for the chimney. Another test that I like to do; insulate MPO outside cover using double or triple sheets of foil.

I really would like to use MPO during winter, hopefully these simple mod will bring the stones temp to over 600 F
Bert,

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2012, 06:45:34 PM »
I'm surprised on the other WFO owners experiences.  I ran my first oven as cold as -20F, and have never noticed a change in performance.  I'm not sure comparing to a WFO is much help for you though.  Although everything is colder the colder air in denser.  In a WFO with a small door this will lead to more air flowing into the oven and allow for more aggressive firing which tend to even things out.  I don't think your setup limits the airflow to the burners(?) so this shouldn't be the case with the MPO.

I see this as an opportunity, not an issue.  Perfect situation for an accessory, something along an insulating blanket to go over the MPO for cold climate use.
-Jeff

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2012, 07:13:54 PM »
Jeff, I knew cold temperature is going to have effect n MPO temperature but I didn't know the extent of it. 

I'm not sure comparing to a WFO is much help for you though.  Although everything is colder the colder air in denser.  In a WFO with a small door this will lead to more air flowing into the oven and allow for more aggressive firing which tend to even things out.  I don't think your setup limits the airflow to the burners(?) so this shouldn't be the case with the MPO.

I see this as an opportunity, not an issue.  Perfect situation for an accessory, something along an insulating blanket to go over the MPO for cold climate use.

I thought to Keep it general for my own education and others of all outdoor pizza oven setups.

I don't think your setup limits the airflow to the burners(?) so this shouldn't be the case with the MPO.

You are right, just need more btu to heat that air.

I see this as an opportunity, not an issue.  Perfect situation for an accessory, something along an insulating blanket to go over the MPO for cold climate use.

Yo are right, it is an opportunity and not an issue. MPO will perform much better during cold days than similar oven inserts. Mainly due to its the closed design, which also make it easier to design an insulation cover.

Bert,

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2012, 12:57:32 PM »
We had a beautiful weather in Houston yesterday. Highest was 68 F.

I didn't get a chance to test MPO till 6 PM. I placed MPO over the middle burners and covered the other tow burners with heavy duty aluminum foil.

I had middle burners on high and side burners on low.

I didn't have any problem getting in 700's temp inside MPO, I need to adjust burners next so bottom stone doesn't way hotter than the top stone. I took the bottom stone out between baking to lower its temperature, next time I should keep it out for shorter time.

As long as the grill have enough BTUs, I don't think it will be a problem baking with MPO during cold weather. But it will require adjusting amount of heat used.



I am looking at trying to keep MPO top stone hotter than the bottom stone. By placing some insulation material on top of MPO top stone. I have tried couple of experiments.



1- I got a ceramic insulation blanket that I wrapped with aluminum foil to prevent any fibers from falling out and placed it on top of MPO top stone. it didn't add any value, might be due to the aluminum foil.

2- I heated a 13" x .5" aluminum disk along with the top stone till they got to over 700 f than I placed the Aluminium disc over MPO top stone. This worked better than the ceramic blanket. even though it worked, it is not a practical solution and it is expensive and not safe.

Any other insulation you may know of that I can try to preserve more heat in MPO top stone? material need to be food safe.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 12:59:57 PM by MightyPizzaOven »
Bert,


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2012, 01:09:28 PM »
Pies look great. It seems like a difficult proposition to get the top stone hotter than the bottom stone when the heat source is directly under the bottom stone. The only way I could get there in my BBQ mod was to have a reflective surface under the bottom stone to reflect some of the heat away from the stone, light an additional wood fire in a cast iron skillet on the grill, and to have about 10 layers of insulation on top of the bbq.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2012, 01:29:32 PM »
Thanks Craig, if i accomplish that, I  think a neo pie is possible with mpo. With yesterday setup, I was getting temp over 700 in MPO. I will try covering bottom stone back with couple of layers of aluminum foil with reflective side down.
Bert,

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2012, 01:52:13 PM »
Thanks Craig, if i accomplish that, I  think a neo pie is possible with mpo. With yesterday setup, I was getting temp over 700 in MPO. I will try covering bottom stone back with couple of layers of aluminum foil with reflective side down.

If you can get 725F on the stone and 775F+ above, you should be able to get a respectable 2:30 NP approximation with the right recipe.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Outdoor Pizza Oven temperature and Outdoor Temperature
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 02:34:22 PM »
I accomplished that temperature and maintained higher temperature using the aluminum disk, this method is not commercially practical. I did take a video on my IPone documenting bake time, Bake time was 2:45 first pie and 2:55 second pie. The recipe was my typical, King Arthur bread flour, water, ADY, slat and olive oil.

Even after couple hours of turning off my grill, top stone temp was higher by at least 50 deg than bottom stone.

Top stone thickness I am currently using is 0.47". May be with properly insulating & increasing top stone thickness and deflecting some of the heat off the bottom stone I may get me a Neo pie.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 02:55:23 PM by MightyPizzaOven »
Bert,