Want to build a gas fired deck oven. Any plans available and suggestions?

[Jet_deck]

Somebody took pictures of the oven, maybe Chau or Kelly?

[norma427]

I don’t know how much this will help, but Steve and I did check out New Park’s oven out and I took some pictures.  At Reply 253 (second picture down) http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17885.msg175833.html#msg175833 and also at Reply 255 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17885.msg175835.html#msg175835 (second picture down) it can been seen how big the gas holes were in the oven and the flames.  Steve and I talked about we wondered how much gas they used in a month with all those flames coming out of the big gas holes.  We never saw anything like that before. 

Norma

[norma427]

There is a better picture of New Park’s oven in this blog.  http://pizzacommander.blogspot.com/2011/09/new-park-pizza.html

Norma

[Sqid]

The problem as far as trade goes is that very few people can do it.  If you have some buddies in customs, a freindly tax man and bank manager to show white money from export gains, plus a trade licence, plus a slip allowing this particular trade, plus .plus!!  You get the picture, jobs for the boys or a few whiley merchants who know and can jump through all the loops.   The other way is border trade, by pass all the crap and just rely a bit on good old fashioned trust:  I can do that with Thailand but I don't have any good connecions in India or China  - and it is a shark infested world!
Things are changing - for all I know, they may have changed already but I doubt it enough to not even bother to find out!!

I looked at the Dago burner, great bit of  kit and beatiful to go with it.  I can't help thinking that you would still need to rotate the pies as they are cooking to avoid uneven charring.  Plus there has to be some sort of recovery time for the floor if you are busy.   Our trade seems to be 95% delivery so the ambience factor, although I like it soooo much, doesn't count. 

I would love to get 350C consistenty.  For my NY style pizzas that would be the ultimate I think.  I need a heat sump for that (metal or fire bricks), Then I've got the prob. of  12" depth and slightly uneven heat from there only being a single line burner.  You know the type - sort of like a tube with holes on each side to let the gas out.  Its also not powerfull enough.

Thanks so much for the 3 box summary, something to get my head around!   The bakers pride is also pretty useful alongside your summary.  One thing I've always wanted to know is what is the oven inside 17 used for?     I'm new to this!  Blush!

You mentioned before that most deck ovens only had a bottom heat source - that at the time was unfathomable - now I can see it.  Doesn't seem ideal, does it?  Or have I been conditioned to think that way by using my bread oven?

Again thanks a million for that reply - I had all but decided to go and buy the one imported bread oven that's in the country atm.   Now I will give it a couple more days of thought.
 

[Sqid]

Norma - thanks for the links.  Just rushing out the door for a possible meet with my sheet metal worker (they are notoriously unreliable LOL).  Will check back later.

[norma427]

Sqid,

Another article about New Park pizza oven.

http://pmq.com/mag/2004september_october/lastingimpressions.php

And what was said about the oven.

Chef Bruno carried me to this pizzeria in New Hyde Park. He said it was one of the pizzas he grew up eating and I now understand why he has such great taste in pizza. They built their own oven and when they open up the gas valve that feeds directly into the oven chamber, this baby really blows a flame. The oven cooks at almost the same temperature as some of the coal-fired ovens I have seen.

Norma

EDIT: For the Wayback Machine link for the above PMQ article, see http://web.archive.org/web/20080725074024/http://www.pmq.com/mag/2004september_october/lastingimpressions.php

[scott123]

Somebody took pictures of the oven, maybe Chau or Kelly?

Gene, I stand corrected.  That's definitely a 100% homegrown oven.

Norma, thanks for the clarification.

Re; New Park's oven, I hate to say it, but I get the feeling that this homegrown oven is less of an advantage and more of a handicap.  It seems, from the paleness of the rims on the non well done pies and the propensity towards burnt undercrusts on the well done ones, I think it's pretty obvious that this oven has top/bottom heat ratio issues.

Still, I think it's a good point of reference to show that a gas deck oven can be built from scratch.

[norma427]

Sqid,

If you are interested, I did post pictures inside and outside of my GP-61 Baker’s Pride Countertop oven and document for the oven at Reply 961 and the following posts. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg153745.html#msg153745  I purchased my deck oven used.

My deck oven must be insulated well, because I can put my hands of the sides and top of the oven when it is hot, except can’t on the doors and the very front top of the oven.  

Norma

[Sqid]

First to clarify a couple of points.

My oven doesn't use a pilot light it uses an electric spark.  When running the burner is either on full blast or off.  Apologies to Don.

Secondly, there is someone here with a multi ton press because there are homemade sinks available.  I assumed your question was for a brake  Sorry if I misled you and don't want you to consider relocating on my say so.  

The oven available is:
Heng Wei - ELY 1370  $1800
2.5 ft x 3ft x 1ft
Uses .42Kg/hour of natural gas
Thermostats are calibrated to 300 and can be twisted past that point.  The booklet talks about a highest heat of 360C
That's it as far as availability of tech specs.
The door is hinged on the top folds into the oven so the actual entrance is only about 8".  Inside the highest point is about 14".

The oven I have is a Sinmag $2500
Roughly same dimensions but the door folds down.

I spoke to my sheet metal worker that made a sterling job of my stainless steel workbenches, made some steel peels for me, decorated the shop.  Presently he's building a 30' x 40' rc house for someone on a budget of about $30,000 lol.  He's fairly competant and fairly straight forward.  He seems to be on board on my terms ............ so my thinking is that if the Chinese can do it we can do it better - maybe - possibly.  

    

[buceriasdon]

Richard, I surmised your oven used an electronic spark ignitors for starting the burners, however there must a means for the burners to reignite once the thremo-sensor reaches a certain temperature and tells the control valve to shut off gas to the burner, either by a pilot light or by the spark/starter which I doubt is the case but it could be possible I suppose. Once the temp drops there must be some means for the burner to light again and the cycle to repeat.
Don

[Sqid]

Yep, I double checked it this morning, Don.  It reignites using the spark.

[shuboyje]

Is the spark possibly always on?  Oil burners in oil fired furnaces use 10K volt transformers to generate a spark and ignite the oil.  The spark in these is always on.  It was something I couldn't get past in my training on them, seemed like such a waste, lol.

[Sqid]

No Jeff it just cackles to life when the temp drops enough.  Thanks for taking an interest.  Any ideas on how to construct a deck oven from scratch?

[scott123]

I found some more information on the Heng Wei oven:

http://www.chinaypages.com/sampleroom/onesample/50645411/Gas_-_Electric_Oven.html

With overheating protection which automatically cuts off power supply when the temperature of oven exceeds 360°C

What's Chinese for 'go to hell'?

Re; DIY oven.  Having a stainless guy at your disposal is definitely nice.  Before you even start thinking about steel fabrication, though, I think you should begin by looking for burners.  You should be looking for large (2' x 3') evenly heating burners in the 120K btu realm. A combination of gas grill burners might do the trick- such as 3 burners from a Weber Genesis. Ideally, you want a real oven burner, though, with a pilot light and safety features.

Re; modifications to your present oven. Have your stainless guy build you a solid platform to raise the floor 5 inches- basically a stainless box with a hole in the bottom to capture the heat rising from the burner. Make sure this elevation doesn't block any vents.

I've also been thinking of the seals.  A photo would help, but, in the mean time, are these rubber-ish?  You might be able to fashion a high temp seal out of rolled up fine steel wool.

Edit: This is the kind of gas grill burner I'm talking about.

http://www.sears.com/weber-gas-grill-stainless-steel-burner-tube-set/p-07142835000P?prdNo=6&blockNo=6&blockType=G6

You'd need to connecting hardware as well, of course (regulator, dials, etc.).

If these burners are in the 38K btu ream, x 3 = 114K.  That's not bad for a deck. Maybe you could run four.  152K is better.

[Jet_deck]

I found some more information on the Heng Wei oven:


 ....    Ideally, you want a real oven burner, though, with a pilot light and safety features....

I would consider that a bare minimum. You cant sell pizza if your dead.

[shuboyje]

No Jeff it just cackles to life when the temp drops enough.  Thanks for taking an interest.  Any ideas on how to construct a deck oven from scratch?

What are you after with this oven?  What style of pizza and bake time do you want?

One thing I've been messing around with in my head lately is a oil fired pizza oven.  For a DIY'r it would be much safer then pumping gas into a enclosed chamber, and oil has a huge amount of heat to give.  If you have a local supply of used fryer oil you would also save a ton on energy costs.  Taconelli's In Philly uses what looks to be a coal oven converted to oil, so I doubt the oil fire would lead to excess soot or off flavors, and I bet they are running fuel oil, so WVO would be even better.  Plus your oven would smell like doughnuts, a big plus in my book. 

[Sqid]

Hi Scott.  I know the appropriate phrase in Burmese but not in Chinese.  I lived in China on and off for about 2 years back in '89/90 and they are a dodgy lot.  I wouldn't say I'm racist but ............. maybe I am racist .  Not to say that I didn't meet a load of great people there but if you're doing business then caveat emptor.  They don't take prisoners!

The oven I'm using atm is the Sinmag SM 803 T.  Think this is the one, didn't have any papers with it.  Probably a Chinese rip off.

Couldn't open the sears link "access denied" for some reason.  But found some Weber grill sets (about $40?).  I was thinking to make that part but maybe I can get it sent to me.  Does it have to be stainless?  Don't you think it would be an advantage to have 2 sets?  One for the bottom and one for the top.  Also when you say "large(2'x3')", I'm assuming you meant 2' or 3'.

Jet - thanks for caring lol!

[Sqid]

Hi Jeff
No supply of used oil.  They don't trash anything!  Sounds like an interesting idea but I'd rather go with a more conventional system.  Going to be enough variables as it is!

I bake a NY style pizza - about 5 mins.  Bit hotter would be better but I'm aiming at the mass market here and need to put a fair amount of toppings on.

The idea is to get an alternative to the sparse choice of ovens available here and to avoid the whims and fancies of greedy suppliers!

[shuboyje]

I think I've got a pretty decent handle on what it would take to make this work.  Before I go to far though do you have the skills to fabricate EVERYTHING you will need yourself?  Do you have sources for the materials and parts you are going to need second hand, scrap, surplus, or cheap for some other reason?  I ask because without those two things, you will never come out ahead financially against buying an oven.  The skilled labor and cost of specialty parts required would kill you financially.

[Sqid]

Have availability of cheap skilled labor if I can track it down!  Not specialist or certified but amazingly skilled.

Availability of parts - there's the rub - what do I need?  We can fabricate lots of stuff - lots of raw materials available - are they right for the job - yet to find out.  Regulators I can buy here.  If its something complex with a lot of small machined parts and it's available in Thailand, I can hand carry it in.  Despite having lived here for more that 15 years I still do a visa run every 3 months and am due to go in the next fortnight.

Let me worry about the finance (which I do every day ).  $2000 dollars can go a long way here if you have the right people and they are not charging 'foreigner' prices on everything!  I wasn't jokeing about the 30'x40', 2 story, reinforced concrete house for $30.000.  That includes labor and materials!
Couple that with the alternatives I've got and it's a viable proposition!

Please go far - I need you.....lots.    This is a fantastic resource for so much pizza related.  I wouldn't have opened my shop if I hadn't found this site.