Author Topic: Impression about flour/water ratio  (Read 2114 times)

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Offline Flo38850

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Impression about flour/water ratio
« on: July 03, 2012, 09:12:37 AM »
I everyone.

I'am not really new on this forum but this is my first post. I also have to say that i'am not a native english speaker.

I have made pizza doughs for a while now, but i'am trying to do the same dough each time. I'am also trying to change parameters...

About flour/water ratio, I have a weird feeling.

Whatever the ratio I put at the beginning (between 50% and 65% of the flour weight for the water weight), while handling the dough, I have to add flour until it is not sticking my hands anymore. So after all, I have the impression to have always the same ratio...

Is it normal ?

Thank you guys


Online weemis

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Re: Impression about flour/water ratio
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2012, 10:25:14 AM »
I make my dough by hand and have had the same thoughts. My hydration rate is 65%ish, meaning that I hydrate at 65% then add small amounts of flour to get the right texture and workability. It's easier to add flour than water, so I always stay on the high side with water and then work it back with flour.

In my opinion this is one benefit of making the dough by hand. It's always slightly different each time, but never enough that it really makes a difference that I've noticed. You just work it until it feels right. And you can always add water if you feel you've gone too far with the flour. Let the dough's tactility guide you and it'll all work out great.
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Online TXCraig1

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Re: Impression about flour/water ratio
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2012, 10:44:47 AM »
You probably don't need to add flour when you are kneading. In the 60% range, it's going to be sticky at first, but it will become more manageable as you develop the gluten. Try working it until it is well mixed. It will still be very sticky. Cover it with a towel and let it rest for 7-10 minutes then knead it a half dozen or so times and cover it with the towel and let it rest for another 7-10 minutes. Repeat this 2 or three more times and it will get smooth as silk and it won't be sticky.

Watch this video. It's a sweet dough - ignore the formula and study the technique of stretching and folding the dough. This is how I do it when I bring the dough together and in between the rests. You will see how the dough gets much less sticky and much smoother as the gluten develops.

http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/video/2008/03/bertinet_sweetdough
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Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Impression about flour/water ratio
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2012, 11:13:08 AM »
There's a lot more to making dough than following a recipe, you have to develop your own technique and a "feel" for what's happening. When in the learning stage it is advisable to use a scale, take notes and learn by doing. As has been stated, dough will often feel tacky at first, but resist the urge to keep adding flour which can lead to a tough, heavy dough. I like to start by combining my ingredients into a very "rough" dough ball and then just cover it up and let it rest for 20 minutes. When you come back to it, the flour will have had a chance to absorb all the water and the dough will be much easier to work with. At this point, a very short kneading and your dough should be fine. Only at this point should you add flour if the dough is still unworkably sticky.

Offline Flo38850

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Re: Impression about flour/water ratio
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2012, 12:54:09 PM »
Your opinions seem biased.

TXCraig i'am not really sure of the difference between my mix and yours. Because by adding the towel I think water is outcoming a little bit...

So finally dmcavanagh, do you mean I have to knead even if it is sticky ?

Thank you

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Impression about flour/water ratio
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2012, 03:34:46 PM »
I don't understand your response. What towel? What do you mean when you say our responses are biased?

When you start it will be sticky. Knead or mix until there are no lumps. Let it rest for 10 minutes. Knead until it is stiff. It will probably have a rough and torn look, but it will be less sticky. Let it rest again for 7-10 minutes. This time when you knead it will be much more smooth and hardly sticky. You may or may not need to give it one more rest to get it really smooth and not sticky.

What is happening is that you are developing the gluten and it is able to hold in more water so the dough gets smoother and less sticky. Using a bunch of bench flour is a band-aid - not a solution. The solution is developing the gluten which takes time and effort.

CL
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Offline Flo38850

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Re: Impression about flour/water ratio
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2012, 07:59:21 AM »
I said that because one said it was normal, and you thought another way, like I don't need to add flour.

Towel is your word... What do you not understand ?

I will try with your technique...

Offline SinoChef

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Re: Impression about flour/water ratio
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2012, 08:35:38 AM »
Oh LMAO!!!, This is my life here every day.  :-D Lost in (Google) translation...

Flo38850, what is your native tongue, language?

The word "biased" is considered to be negative word in English. To have only one mind, one idea. Or to be prejudice against other opinion, that is different from your opinion.

TXCraig, try reading  the phrase "Your opinions seem biased." more along the lines of, you seem to each hold your own opinions on this subject.

Or to be of 2 opinions.

I am sure what ever translator being used is picking up on the Latin root for Bi. As in Bi Lingual. (and then the fun begins, oh the stories I could tell of unnecessary insults/misunderstandings from online translations!)


Quote
What do you not understand ?

Comes out crass, but I am sure the intent is nothing more then, "we seem to be  having difficulties in communicating, why is this?"

Flo38850. Try the technique of TXCraig. You will see it is true. The towel is not taking the water out.

Also, it is difficult to make exactly the same dough every time. Humidity. Temperature of the air inside the room. The flour can also be different, but come from the same manufacture. you must practice and learn. You will see what is different each time. And you must adjust to the need of the dough. Small adjustment.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 09:10:29 AM by SinoChef »

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Impression about flour/water ratio
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2012, 09:40:21 AM »
I said that because one said it was normal, and you thought another way, like I don't need to add flour.

Towel is your word... What do you not understand ?

I will try with your technique...

Sorry. The towel is just to cover it as it rests to slow evaporation and prevent a skin from forming on your dough. It slows water loss - it does not accelerate it.

CL
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Offline wheelman

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Re: Impression about flour/water ratio
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2012, 10:04:20 AM »
cool video Craig! 


Offline Flo38850

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Re: Impression about flour/water ratio
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2012, 10:43:06 AM »
Hi SinoChef

I'am french, but i'am not using translators. I have a good english (a survivor/survival ? english, 4 month abroad), but this word apparrently came wrong in my mind (biased)

But actually you understood what I mean, I don't know how :)

A last question. Have you ever tried barbecue to cook pizza ?

Offline SinoChef

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Re: Impression about flour/water ratio
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2012, 01:44:06 AM »
Quote
But actually you understood what I mean, I don't know how  :-D


 :-D I work in China for 3 years. I do not speak the language very well, so I must use computer translations every day. Every language has words, that have more then 1 meaning.

And the computer can not translate the emotion of what it being said.

I try to order the herb, sage. And they ask why I need a Buddhist Monk. Sage = Wise old man. Or if I write a menu with sage butter. It will be translated to Butter made from a wise man.

Chinese have their own style of Pâté. It is made with capon. But the computer will translates it to, Small cock paste. It was printed like that on a menu at my hotel. :-\

Quote
A last question. Have you ever tried barbecue to cook pizza ?


I have not. but there are many people here that have had great success with the concept.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4753.0.html