Author Topic: Forno Bravo Andiamo or Forno Classico Piccolo (Read 4410 times)

mitchjg · « **on:** July 04, 2012, 12:43:26 PM »

I am gearing up to ordering a pre-assembled wfo. I do not want a permanent installation and want the ability to move my oven on casters.

Other than one I spotted on eBay (2 fat boys), the Andiamo is the only one I have found so far. My wife and I stopped by the Forno Bravo factory this week (we were in the area on a quick vacation from our home in Oakland) and saw one up close. That was fun.

But, now I have also found the oven from Forno Classico. I have a note into them to learn if they can / will manufacture the stand on caster wheels.

Also, I am undecided between the larger/smaller Andiamo. That is primarily a size and ease of movement question.

I would appreciate any feedback on the 3 choices (other?) I have, so far, narrowed it down to.

The 2 fat boys oven (http://twofatboys.com/) seems like the best deal but the steel look is very industrial looking and I am not sure if they have a reputation developed.

Thanks!

- Mitch

Woodfiredovenpizzero · « **Reply #1 on:** July 04, 2012, 02:47:50 PM »

Mitch:

after over year of searching the internet I purchased the Picollo from Forno Classico. One of my requirements was the portability. Since I own the oven I have been please with the results. There re many ovens on the market but this one worked well for me.

Edgar

mitchjg · « **Reply #2 on:** July 04, 2012, 05:38:36 PM »

Thanks for your recommendation.

Given you wanted portability, how exactly do you move it? I understand it weighs 400 pounds - unless it has wheels, I do not see it going anywhere once it is put in a place.

- Mitch

fornographer · « **Reply #3 on:** July 04, 2012, 05:39:28 PM »

Quote from: mitchjg on July 04, 2012, 12:43:26 PM

I am gearing up to ordering a pre-assembled wfo. I do not want a permanent installation and want the ability to move my oven on casters.

Other than one I spotted on eBay (2 fat boys), the Andiamo is the only one I have found so far. My wife and I stopped by the Forno Bravo factory this week (we were in the area on a quick vacation from our home in Oakland) and saw one up close. That was fun.

But, now I have also found the oven from Forno Classico. I have a note into them to learn if they can / will manufacture the stand on caster wheels.

Also, I am undecided between the larger/smaller Andiamo. That is primarily a size and ease of movement question.

I would appreciate any feedback on the 3 choices (other?) I have, so far, narrowed it down to.

The 2 fat boys oven (http://twofatboys.com/) seems like the best deal but the steel look is very industrial looking and I am not sure if they have a reputation developed.

Thanks!

- Mitch

I got the Andiamo 70. You can read about my experience with it so far: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18632.0.html

mitchjg · « **Reply #4 on:** July 04, 2012, 06:30:53 PM »

Thanks fornographer! I just read through your adventure thus far. Looks like a great oven and it is clear that your pies look better and better with each round!

Can you tell me how difficult it is to move? I would be keeping it in my courtyard which is all slate tile. So, pretty smooth surface, no rough terrain. Can one move it easily? Are two required? Depending on difficulty, I could "give it up" and get a primavera. Or, if it is relatively easy to move, there are 2 spots it could go. One would require constant movement (roll it out to use, roll it back to store). The other would pretty much be a permanent spot.

thanks.

fornographer · « **Reply #5 on:** July 04, 2012, 07:48:59 PM »

Quote from: mitchjg on July 04, 2012, 06:30:53 PM

Thanks fornographer! I just read through your adventure thus far. Looks like a great oven and it is clear that your pies look better and better with each round!

Can you tell me how difficult it is to move? I would be keeping it in my courtyard which is all slate tile. So, pretty smooth surface, no rough terrain. Can one move it easily? Are two required? Depending on difficulty, I could "give it up" and get a primavera. Or, if it is relatively easy to move, there are 2 spots it could go. One would require constant movement (roll it out to use, roll it back to store). The other would pretty much be a permanent spot.

thanks.

You will be able to move it by yourself quite easily as long as the floor is smooth. The wheels are made out of plastic that can easily get worn if they are rolled on a rough floor. Should you decide to in the future, you can replace the casters with bigger ones (even pneumatic tires) so it will roll a lot easier.

If there's a incline on the location where you will be situating the oven, I strongly recommend having a couple of strong folks around just in case so it doesn't run away from you. Get some chocks once you set it in place. The casters lock but the locking mechanism design is not good.

mitchjg · « **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2012, 09:14:21 PM »

Thanks for getting back to me again. There is no incline. The debate in placement:

if I put it against my garage wall, the trip from the kitchen is minimized. However, I think I will need to pull it from the wall to protect paint on the wall and the 2 foot overhang from smoke. So, that would be a "back and forth" for each move of several feet.

If I put it on the other end of the courtyard, the distance is greater but it is out of the way in the corner and is least obtrusive. Of course if it really is going to just stay there, I can get the primavera.

Very helpful, thanks for the information.

- Mitch

JConk007 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 04, 2012, 10:21:58 PM »

I like the forno Classico ggeta stand built look at what Flyboy4ual did (and many others on the forum) nice stand large oven even if you have to get it delivered then fabricate stand. If theres a will theres a way
yiou can even get a forklift and pout it in your Garage!! aka txcraig
John

mitchjg · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2012, 05:14:20 PM »

I am likely going to purchase the Andiamo from Forno Bravo. A major reason is the fact that it can be moved on wheels fairly readily. Moving it would otherwise require hiring several strong people and that, in itself, is a hassle. There is no access for machinery such as a forklift.

One last item to check in is the slope of my slate courtyard. It has about a 2 degree slope in the area it is likely to go (actually 2 percent front / back and 2 percent left / right). It has to do with the very hilly area I live in and ensuring water would not head for the house (1/2 of which is on stilts!).

In order for it to be perfectly level, I would need to raise a corner around an inch. I do not think it matters but I am asking the forno bravo rep to check with their technical folks.

Thanks and comments welcome.

- Mitch

pizzaneer · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2012, 05:22:52 PM »

Have you considered embedding some steel U-rail that the wheels could track in? Just level the rails carefully, and you won't have to worry about it rolling away or it being not 100% true.

mitchjg · « **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2012, 05:33:21 PM »

The slate courtyard is something I do not want to mess with. Technically it is a deck or a "bridge" from the street to my house. Major steel platform underneath with girders. I do not want to be "invasive" in any way.

pizzaneer · « **Reply #11 on:** July 05, 2012, 05:36:13 PM »

Understood - then your best recourse might be to add another course. Raise the patio and embed the rails in one area, giving a multi-level effect (really nice for outdoor kitchen build).

If that's too much effort, then you really should look closer at the permanent stand.

mitchjg · « **Reply #12 on:** July 05, 2012, 05:50:14 PM »

Pizzaneer:

Help me understand the concern. Is it that the wheels may not hold the oven in place? I have been assuming the wheels lock and that I could somehow chock them. 2 percent slope does not seem like much ( unless I am on my road bike and feeling tired!)

Woodfiredovenpizzero · « **Reply #13 on:** July 05, 2012, 07:27:47 PM »

Here re some pictures on how I placed my WFO:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13956.msg152129.html#msg152129

Edgar

scott123 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2012, 02:40:56 AM »

Mitch, for what they're worth, here are my two cents.

Imo, if you are a Neapolitan pizza obsessive or plan on eventually being one, neither the Andiamo nor the Piccolo is the oven for you. The dome heights on both of these ovens are egregiously high. The height of the dome relates directly to the top/bottom heat ratio. The higher the dome, the less top heat is generated and the harder it is to achieve the characteristic leoparding of Neapolitan pizza.

Fornographer has made some stunning pizzas, but I believe, with his oven, should he ever yearn for something a little more Neapolitan, something a bit more Craig-ish, he's going to hit a wall. Maybe he'll do one Craig quality pie in one night, but have trouble doing more than one at a time. Whatever the outcome, his oven won't ever match Craig's.

Now, I know it's a lot to expect for a $2Kish oven to act like a $15Kish oven, but, we're seeing $3Kish ovens with more Neapolitan-ish thermal dynamics that ARE acting like their $15Kish brethren- or at least showing a great deal of promise- nothing portable, so that might rule them out for you, personally, but I'd still like to share the information before you pull the trigger.

mitchjg · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2012, 08:45:09 AM »

Hi Scott123:

Thanks for telling me about this. I did not know about the design or shape issues that created the temperature limitations which, in turn, limit the type of pizza.

I am surprised since I thought you needed temperatures of 800 or so for a Neapolitan and that these ovens are capable of delivering that level (including the dome).

BTW, after all is said and done the Andiamo will not be $2k'ish for me but closer to $4k'ish (the larger one + tax + shipping + tools). So, moving to $3k'ish may not actually be such a huge leap.

Bigger than the money (which my family is already teasing the heck out of me for), is the portability and size. My property is terribly limited for space, being on the steep terrain it is on. So, my courtyard in front (which is really a superstructure deck) and back deck are it.

Are there a couple or few ovens you would point me to in order to assess viability?

Finally, I do not think I am a Neapolitan obsessive (at least yet, I am an obsessive in general). I grew up with NY pizza and that became my standard before stumbling on pizza making.com when I started making pizza at home a couple of years ago. I have a 2Stone pizza grill which has served me pretty well. I get the top/bottom temps to about 700 and it turns out 12" great pies (although I do not know what style I would call them - NY? Elite NY?, I model after Varasono's dough instructions). I am thinking of moving on from the 2Stone because of the hassle factor of assembly/disassembly and some annoying rust that has developed in the structure.

Thank you very much for the advice and please send more. - Mitch

BrickStoneOven · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2012, 09:21:45 AM »

Quote from: mitchjg on July 06, 2012, 08:45:09 AM

Hi Scott123:

Thanks for telling me about this. I did not know about the design or shape issues that created the temperature limitations which, in turn, limit the type of pizza.

I am surprised since I thought you needed temperatures of 800 or so for a Neapolitan and that these ovens are capable of delivering that level (including the dome).

Does the temp matter, yes. But it's more about how that temp is used in the oven. The heat from the fire, wall, dome that is radiated and the heat circulation within the oven.

Like when you see those people who are making portable barrel vault ovens stating they are the best or whatever marketing gimmick they can come up with. Yet they have almost no thermal mass and nearly no insulation. I'm not an expert in oven dynamics but a barrel vault oven has as much circulation as a person who just had a heart attack. The purpose of a correctly constructed barrel vault is for beard baking. Because they have so much thermal mass that they can bake bread for hours on end with a consistent and constant temp.

I think the reason why Scott asked if you were a Neo obsessive was if that was the type of style you aiming to recreate because the oven will play a factor in that. Though temp is probably the key factor in what style you are making the oven also has to play a roll in that as well. If your going for a NY style I don't think the higher dome will play that much of an issue. But if your aiming for Neo then the higher dome will play a factor in the balance of heat between which side of the pizza gets finished first.

Omid got a Piccolo and I don't think he will have any issues with making great pizza.

pizzaneer · « **Reply #17 on:** July 06, 2012, 10:08:55 AM »

Quote from: BrickStoneOven on July 06, 2012, 09:21:45 AM

Omid got a Piccolo and I don't think he will have any issues with making great pizza.

Omid could probably bake a fantastic 120-second pie inside the hood of a black car going 150mph on a sunny day across the Bonneville Salt Flats.

You have to get a feel for the equipment... some people find that process very natural and intuitive, others have to use their pathetic, slow, trudging-through-the-numbers left-brain cognitive reasoning.

And sometimes it just makes sense to get something easy to work with in the first place...

mitchjg · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2012, 11:45:15 AM »

Love it. I am a trudge through the numbers type (and a math major to boot!).

Having said that I am looking for something easy to work with. The hassle factor of installation combined with my space limitations is what sends me to the Andiamo. If I pull the trigger on it, I sure do hope it is easy to work with. If not for the installation concerns, I would probably end up with the Piccolo.

I may talk to a contractor that has worked on my house and seek his help on installation.

- Mitch

BrickStoneOven · « **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2012, 03:05:10 PM »

Quote from: mitchjg on July 06, 2012, 11:45:15 AM

Love it. I am a trudge through the numbers type (and a math major to boot!).

Having said that I am looking for something easy to work with. The hassle factor of installation combined with my space limitations is what sends me to the Andiamo. If I pull the trigger on it, I sure do hope it is easy to work with. If not for the installation concerns, I would probably end up with the Piccolo.

I may talk to a contractor that has worked on my house and seek his help on installation.

- Mitch

Have you seen this thread yet? http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18632.0.html He's had great success.