Author Topic: Best stone for grill??? (Read 2450 times)

Jackitup · « **on:** July 04, 2012, 07:01:03 PM »

I've read thru a lot of threads but no sure answer on what kind of stone for a charcoal grill. Shielded Fibrament, Cordierite, ect. What do you all recommend. I have a Fribrament in my home oven and like it but will there be a heat up time that is too long or would the cordierite be better being careful of crust burning and such. Figuring temps of 600+
Thanks
Jon

pizzaneer · « **Reply #1 on:** July 04, 2012, 07:07:50 PM »

At that temp, definitely a kiln shelf. It's cheap, indestructible and you can get whatever size you want custom-cut. If you were going for lower temps, then a more conductive stone would be a better bet.

Jackitup · « **Reply #2 on:** July 04, 2012, 07:34:43 PM »

would that be the cordierite then? I've had a tough time finding anything beside pre-determined sizes of 14, 15 and 16.5 at I think 1/2 thick. Metal shielding or not? Haven't found a place to custom cut anything. Round btw.
Jon

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 04, 2012, 08:06:48 PM »

I used the Fibament grill stone in the metal tray on my grill do years with no problems. It worked great for me.

CL

pizzaneer · « **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2012, 06:37:00 AM »

I took a look around in your areas' listings for pottery supply places. Not much there! But here's a link for an online supplier. http://www.axner.com/cordierite-kiln-shelves.aspx

As you can see, all sizes up to 21" decagon. One thing should have asked was what you're going to do with it. Is it going to be the top stone in a pizza kettle, or the bottom stone in a LBE? Fine either way, just different size spec. The pizza kettle comes with a bottom stone, I think.

Jackitup · « **Reply #5 on:** July 05, 2012, 07:51:35 AM »

22.5 Weber Performer with that Kettle Pizza insert using lump and wood chunks. With a couple small adaptations I think this thing can fly. A good option for vs 4 grand for a WFO. May still get one of those too sometime but was going to get the charcoal grill anyway so figured what the hell, give it a try.
Jon

pizzaneer · « **Reply #6 on:** July 05, 2012, 08:02:42 AM »

Sounds like you could just get the top stone (21") and see how the kettle pizza does with its supplied stone for the hearth. I'm sure it won't be a extremely-high quality stone, but what the hell, use it till it breaks. Replace it with another corderite shelf when that happens, last money you'll have to spend on it.

I bet you're looking forward to the 800+ temps!

scott123 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2012, 09:02:03 AM »

Jon, have you pulled the trigger on the KettlePizza insert yet? If you have any DIY inclination you can fashion a much cheaper equivalent with a thin long string of metal flashing.

Since you plan on working with wood, that rules out the fibrament grill stone, because it uses an aluminum shield, and aluminum could melt at wood burning temps.

As Brian points out, cordierite is the way to go, both for the hearth and the ceiling.

If you have pulled the trigger on the KettlePizza, here's the thread to read

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/06/pizza-lab-in-which-we-get-the-kettlepizza-insert-working-and-meet-its-maker.html

Pay close attention to Redwings' experiments- he's trying to use the 21" round axner shelf as a ceiling without a top grate.

Jackitup · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2012, 10:44:50 AM »

Quote from: pizzaneer on July 05, 2012, 08:02:42 AM

Sounds like you could just get the top stone (21") and see how the kettle pizza does with its supplied stone for the hearth. I'm sure it won't be a extremely-high quality stone, but what the hell, use it till it breaks. Replace it with another corderite shelf when that happens, last money you'll have to spend on it.

I bet you're looking forward to the 800+ temps!

I'm looking forward to the new toy and playing with it. You know what they say...."Big boy toys, and he who dies with the most wins"!! That Axner site looks the best bet so far and pricing is great

Quote from: TXCraig1 on July 04, 2012, 08:06:48 PM

I used the Fibament grill stone in the metal tray on my grill do years with no problems. It worked great for me.

CL

Craig I like the Fibrament a lot, have had it in my indoor oven for years but the cordierite sounds like the deal for the grill and can get 2-3 stones for the fibrament price.

Quote from: scott123 on July 05, 2012, 09:02:03 AM

Jon, have you pulled the trigger on the KettlePizza insert yet? If you have any DIY inclination you can fashion a much cheaper equivalent with a thin long string of metal flashing.

Since you plan on working with wood, that rules out the fibrament grill stone, because it uses an aluminum shield, and aluminum could melt at wood burning temps.

As Brian points out, cordierite is the way to go, both for the hearth and the ceiling.

If you have pulled the trigger on the KettlePizza, here's the thread to read

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/06/pizza-lab-in-which-we-get-the-kettlepizza-insert-working-and-meet-its-maker.html

Pay close attention to Redwings' experiments- he's trying to use the 21" round axner shelf as a ceiling without a top grate.

Scott, yes, order was shipped about 20 minutes ago. I figure for the price of a couple good dinners out the deal's paid for. I'm thinking of a ceiling drop to just above the opening of the insert with a gap in the back of the bottom stone for flame/heat to come up, hit the dropped ceiling and come over the pizza and a gap in the front of the dropped ceiling stone plate so when the heat comes to the front it will be sucked up thru the dome with the top vent open to bring it in the back again. I certainly will post pics of the new toy and it's results. Thought of doing the DIY and thought what the hell, work an extra shift at the hospital....done, overtime is ALWAYS around ;-)

Jon

Jon

Riprazor · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2012, 11:26:37 AM »

Quote from: Jackitup on July 04, 2012, 07:01:03 PM

I've read thru a lot of threads but no sure answer on what kind of stone for a charcoal grill. Shielded Fibrament, Cordierite, ect. What do you all recommend. I have a Fribrament in my home oven and like it but will there be a heat up time that is too long or would the cordierite be better being careful of crust burning and such. Figuring temps of 600+
Thanks
Jon

http://www.ssfbs.com/

I am in North Oaks, MN and just purchased 10 medium density firebrick splits from them for about 25 bucks. I also use a Fibrament stone. The bricks are used in my oven and have a shorter heat up time and give me a perfect 18 x 18 inch surface. Smith Sharpe is not that far from Hastings if I am looking at the map correctly. They also have cordierite and any other type of refractory material you can imagine. Almost 50% of their business is now baking related according the person I was working with.

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2012, 11:32:18 AM »

Quote from: Jackitup on July 05, 2012, 10:44:50 AM

Craig I like the Fibrament a lot, have had it in my indoor oven for years but the cordierite sounds like the deal for the grill and can get 2-3 stones for the fibrament price.

Jon, for sure it's not the least expensive. I just wanted to give you my $0.02 about the durability in a rather harsh environment. I broke several less expensive stones before I broke down and went for the Fibrament grill stone.

Jackitup · « **Reply #11 on:** July 05, 2012, 08:14:04 PM »

Quote from: Riprazor on July 05, 2012, 11:26:37 AM

http://www.ssfbs.com/

I am in North Oaks, MN and just purchased 10 medium density firebrick splits from them for about 25 bucks. I also use a Fibrament stone. The bricks are used in my oven and have a shorter heat up time and give me a perfect 18 x 18 inch surface. Smith Sharpe is not that far from Hastings if I am looking at the map correctly. They also have cordierite and any other type of refractory material you can imagine. Almost 50% of their business is now baking related according the person I was working with.

Riprazor, thanks. That place is about 5 miles from where I work at Children's Hosp in Mpls. I want to go to restaurant Depot anyway so I can stop there first and check them out.

Quote from: TXCraig1 on July 05, 2012, 11:32:18 AM

Jon, for sure it's not the least expensive. I just wanted to give you my $0.02 about the durability in a rather harsh environment. I broke several less expensive stones before I broke down and went for the Fibrament grill stone.

Craig, still haven't entirely ruled out the Fibrament, just crossing and dotting all dealies. My home oven Fibrament has been great for years and have nothing bad to say about it. But if I were to go with the Axner place for example, a 21" round, .75" thick stone is 29 bucks, a Fibrament is 67 bucks for a 16.25 dim x .75" thick, so I could get 2 bigger stones for less than 1 Fibrament. Decisions decisions, what's a girl to do.....;-) I'll be checking out that Smith Sharpe place in the morning after work if I'm not tooo tired.
Jon

Riprazor · « **Reply #12 on:** July 05, 2012, 09:07:22 PM »

Jon, Do me a favor and let me know if the St. Paul Restaraunt Depot will give you a day pass without a tax ID number if you head over there. Would like to check it out but I know some won't let you in at all without the certificate of incorporation or a tax number.

Thanks,
Barry/Riprazor

pizzaneer · « **Reply #13 on:** July 05, 2012, 09:33:32 PM »

As far as thats concerned you could say you are a sole proprietor and give them your SS#. If you want to. I don't like giving that out.

Jackitup · « **Reply #14 on:** July 05, 2012, 10:29:41 PM »

Quote from: Riprazor on July 05, 2012, 09:07:22 PM

Jon, Do me a favor and let me know if the St. Paul Restaraunt Depot will give you a day pass without a tax ID number if you head over there. Would like to check it out but I know some won't let you in at all without the certificate of incorporation or a tax number.

Thanks,
Barry/Riprazor

Barry, are you available in the a.m. It will be a quick stop at the Smith joint and would be at RD by 745-8 o'clock. Or Sat morning, be happy to show you the place. I punch the clock between 7-730 am. Otherwise I think they do a day pass or if you know someone with a tax ID have them sign up and they can get 2 extra cards. That's what me and a buddy did with a bar/restaurant owner in Siren WI.
Jon

scott123 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 05, 2012, 10:37:59 PM »

Quote from: Jackitup on July 05, 2012, 10:44:50 AM

Scott, yes, order was shipped about 20 minutes ago. I figure for the price of a couple good dinners out the deal's paid for. I'm thinking of a ceiling drop to just above the opening of the insert with a gap in the back of the bottom stone for flame/heat to come up, hit the dropped ceiling and come over the pizza and a gap in the front of the dropped ceiling stone plate so when the heat comes to the front it will be sucked up thru the dome with the top vent open to bring it in the back again. I certainly will post pics of the new toy and it's results. Thought of doing the DIY and thought what the hell, work an extra shift at the hospital....done, overtime is ALWAYS around ;-)

From the work that Kenji and others have done, I don't think you want any gap in the dropped ceiling. I've scoured the web for hours looking for round stones larger than 21" and I couldn't find any. Hopefully the gap between the KettlePizza insert and Axner's 21" round shelf will be negligible. If it isn't, filling it, without using foil, could be tricky. I guess, in theory, the area closer to the door should be a bit cooler than the area at the back where the flame is coming up, so perhaps, if you push the ceiling back, as you're planning, foil might work in the front to block that gap. Ideally, though, there should be no gap. All the air should be venting via the KettlePizza opening.

Keep in mind that Axner can get a bit creative when it comes to shipping and handling charges, so what looks like an amazing deal may not end up one by the time all charges are added up. It doesn't make that much of a difference, though- the final axner price is competitive with other online ceramic suppliers, AND, more importantly, you WILL want to use this setup with wood, and the Fibrament grill stone cannot be used with wood, so the price comparison between Axner and Fibrament is moot. Do not buy a fibrament stone for this grill.

Also, as Brian pointed out, you're getting a stone with the kettlepizza- a very durable cordierite stone. The hearth is take care of. As I'm sure you're aware, you're looking for a ceiling. Unless you can find a good price on a 21" round kiln shelf locally, I'd go with Axner.

Jackitup · « **Reply #16 on:** July 05, 2012, 10:52:57 PM »

Was also thinking of using a thin metal plate that could be cut to the exact size and the extra stone on top it it. No gaps and heat sink to boot.
Jon

pizzaneer · « **Reply #17 on:** July 05, 2012, 10:54:31 PM »

Quote from: scott123 on July 05, 2012, 10:37:59 PM

you're getting a stone with the kettlepizza- a very durable cordierite stone.

Good information. I thought it would be some cheap POS. Glad to be wrong!

pizzaneer · « **Reply #18 on:** July 05, 2012, 10:56:25 PM »

Quote from: Jackitup on July 05, 2012, 10:52:57 PM

Was also thinking of using a thin metal plate that could be cut to the exact size and the extra stone on top it it. No gaps and heat sink to boot.
Jon

Sounds good to me. I use stainless steel, warping is not an issue if the stone weighs it down.

scott123 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2012, 12:12:25 AM »

Quote from: Jackitup on July 05, 2012, 10:52:57 PM

Was also thinking of using a thin metal plate that could be cut to the exact size and the extra stone on top it it. No gaps and heat sink to boot.
Jon

Would you cut the metal plate round so that it fits inside the insert or just sit the metal plate on top? I've spent some time looking for round steel discs, and have been semi-successful, but cutting plate round could either be costly or difficult.

If, on the hand you're going with a square plate and sitting it on top of the insert, then the ceiling will be too far away from the pizza, imo. Kenji did a beautiful pie (his best yet, imo) with his stone on top of the insert, but if you have any inclinations towards Neapolitan bake times, you need to bring the ceiling down to just above the door, as you were thinking about before.

If you do decide to put the steel on top, you really shouldn't need a plate plus another stone. According to my estimates, you should need some thermal mass but not that much. 1/4" steel plate should be plenty. 1/4" steel should give you good insurance against warping as well. A thinner gauge plate, even with the weight of the stone on it, could end up warping on you. You might be able to get away with as thin as 1/8" steel (also without a stone on top), but I definitely wouldn't go thinner than that.

My advice is to see how redwing's 21" axner shelf works out and, while he's testing it, run your kettlepizza insert with a foil ceiling and lower, foil friendly temps (no wood yet).