Deni 2300 vs eWare XJ-6K205 ($50 oven shootout)

[Tampa]

My daughter landed a job in San Francisco and was bugging me to equip her with a pizza oven.  The constraint is that she’ll be a city dweller renting a shoebox – not exactly WFO territory.  (Neo readers should stop reading now.)

I purchased a 120V Deni 2300 rotisserie pizza maker a couple of years ago only to take it apart and never use it.  Pressed for an apartment-friendly solution, I dusted it off and threw on a Mellow Mushroom-style pie (her favorite).  Turns out the Deni with a thin steel, Teflon-plated, pan does a decent job cooking a Mellow pie at 650F in 6-10 minutes depending pie type and crust preference.  In my tests, I preheated the oven about 3 minutes to get everything warm before throwing on the pie.  There is something wonderful about an appliance that costs $50, plugs into a standard 120V wall socket, and ejects good pizza every 10 minutes or so.

The trouble with Deni 2300 is that they don’t make them anymore and the only to get one is ebay.  Sometimes they are $40, sometimes they are $65 – still a bargain if they make the style of pizza you are looking for.  So I started looking around to find out what else is out there.

Turns out, Wayfair makes the eWare Model XJ-6K205.  It is a very similar design but it offers a 12” cooking diameter (instead of 11” for Deni 2300).  Even better, they are selling for $42 on overstock.com.  Here’s the rub: attorney’s severely limited the eWare’s performance for liability reasons.  Bugger.  In order for the  larger1200 watt eWare to perform like the smaller 1100 watt Deni 2300, one would need to disassemble the lid of the eWare, remove the thermal contactor and the 10 amp inline fuse, and then reassemble.  I wouldn’t recommend that.  If you ignore my recommendation, removing those two items results in a current draw around 9.3 amps running flat out – both burners and the rotisserie - which is still less than the 1200W nameplate rating.

I knew of someone once that modified an eWare pizza maker.  The way they did it was to purchase an old toaster oven for $8 at Salvation Army, and remove the 15 amp switch used to control upper elements, lower elements, or both.  That switch was repurposed to control the upper and lower heating elements in the eWare pizza oven.  It is almost a direct replacement – only needing a simple adapter mounting plate to mount the repurposed switch where the original switch/timer use to be.  Warning: anyone performing such foolishness takes the liability upon themselves.

If you buy one of the eWare ovens, don’t believe product reviews which read: “like pizza from a brick oven”.  It ain’t so – not right out of the box, not even when modified.

Dave

[scott123]

Nice write up, Dave.

I have to admit that you made a better looking pizza than I thought these ovens could produce, but I think the quality is more a testament to your skills than the abilities of the ovens.

Sometimes you see the Deni Bella or the Ferrari G3 in this price range.  I think I'd get one of those before these.  Unmodified, those can't do Neapolitan bakes, but I think they can do comfortable 4 minute bakes.

[sub]

You're absolutely right !

look here

modded you can bake a pizza in 2'20 minutes.

[Tampa]

Thx for the kind words Scott.  I’ve still got a lot to learn in the skills category.

You know I’m a rotisserie fan and a tree hugger (i.e. fast warm up).  I read a lot of the Bella articles a while back and was amazed at the results (don’t know much about the Ferrari).

One problem I’ve had w/ the Mellow-style pie is molasses tends to burn on cordierite at 650-700F.  A discolored stone is one thing, but a black underside of the pie is unappetizing when the neighborhood is over (don’t ask..).  One nice thing about the 2300 is that it doesn’t scorch the Mellow crust.

For near-Neo pies, the modded Bella or G3 is probably much better (although I don’t remember reading about a 2 min 20 sec bake.)

Dave

[Pete-zza]

Dave,

Can you tell me which Mellow Mushroom clone dough recipe you have been using and is your daughter happy with it?

Peter

[sub]

For near-Neo pies, the modded Bella or G3 is probably much better (although I don’t remember reading about a 2 min 20 sec bake.)

You have to mod it like this and with a double heating element on top you can bake almost a napolitan pizza in 60-90 seconds look

[Tampa]

Sub – Thank you for the links!  Very kind.  Those pictures show remarkable leoparding (spots) on the crust.  The photos of the inside of the G3 are equally interesting to me.  I’m guessing the primary purpose of the tinfoil is to provide a bit of insulation.  That “bowl” in the center of the lid is unique.  I’m guessing the purpose is to avoid overcooking the cheese and diverting that heat to the rim.  If so, I like that trick.  If I'm reading your post correctly, you prefer more crisp (less fold) in the crust.  Me too.

Peter – I know there are more than eighty pages of Mellow Mushroom post on that Atlanta thread.  I’ve read a lot of it but haven’t kept up with the recipe particulars.  Here’s what we used to create the 12” pie in the picture.

Kyrol Flour: 150g (100%)
Water: 90g (60%)
Publix Molasses: 10g (6.7%)
Salt: 3.5g (2.3%)
Yeast IDY: ¼ tsp

[Chicago Bob]

You have to mod it like this and with a double heating element on top you can bake almost a napolitan pizza in 60-90 seconds look

sub,

Please tell me what you mean by "a double heating element on top" ? I have a Deni. Thank you. Also, did you do any internal mods?

Bob

[norma427]

Dave,

I know you have eaten and tasted a lot of MM pies.  Do you think your formulation you used tasted like a MM pie?  I also wanted to ask you if you can taste any sweetness in a real MM pie or when using your formulation?  I have only tasted a real MM pie from the dough balls Bob sent me and the one time I went to MM in DC.  It seems many people don’t seem to think the MM crust really has much sweetness in the crust.  When I tried the different clone attempts I did on the MM thread, I did taste a sweetness in the crust from those formulations. 

Sorry to take this off-topic with your Deni.

Norma

[Tampa]

Hi Norma, always a pleasure to hear from you.

We have four Mellow eaters in my family and all think that the formulation we use is a close match.  But that statement comes with some qualifiers.  There may be regional differences in MM's formulation (?).  I trust my kid’s taste buds more than my own - I just find kids discern subtitle flavor differences better that I do (and they eat mostly cheese pies).  Also, when I eat a Mellow pie, either there or homemade, it is the combo with all kinds of stuff, including the bacon.  I know, I don’t belong on this forum 

Kidding aside, I do like a lot of different styles of pizza.  Deep dish Chicago is on my mind today although in a few weeks I'll be back in SF at Tony Tony Gemignani's.  Love that New Yorker.

Also, we do detect sweetness in the MM dough.

Best

Dave

[Pete-zza]

There may be regional differences in MM's formulation (?).

Dave,

Except for the MM locations in and around Atlanta, where the dough balls are fresh, all of the other locations get frozen dough balls, from a central commissary in the Atlanta area. The issue of sweetness in the finished crust has received a lot of attention and debate. I even took a stab at some possibilities for discrepancies in the sweetness of the MM crusts at Reply 1269 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg170160.html#msg170160.

Peter

[norma427]

Hi Norma, always a pleasure to hear from you.

We have four Mellow eaters in my family and all think that the formulation we use is a close match.  But that statement comes with some qualifiers.  There may be regional differences in MM's formulation (?).  I trust my kid’s taste buds more than my own - I just find kids discern subtitle flavor differences better that I do (and they eat mostly cheese pies).  Also, when I eat a Mellow pie, either there or homemade, it is the combo with all kinds of stuff, including the bacon.  I know, I don’t belong on this forum  

Kidding aside, I do like a lot of different styles of pizza.  Deep dish Chicago is on my mind today although in a few weeks I'll be back in SF at Tony Tony Gemignani's.  Love that New Yorker.

Also, we do detect sweetness in the MM dough.

Best

Dave

Dave,

It is a pleasure to hear from you too!  

I might have to try your formulation out.  What size pizza is that for?  I have been thinking about when I tasted Bob’s MM pies and when I visited DC to try MM pizzas.  

I am having my doubts now if any of my attempt are really like a MM pizza.  I thought they were, but after reading so many reviews and looking at so many pictures on Google images, I don’t think my pies really look anything like the MM pies.  After thinking about it none of my attempts had the right texture of a MM pie.  They did have oven spring, but I don’t think the crumb structure was right.  What kind of flour are you using for your formulation?  Maybe it is just my mind that is confused in how a MM tasted since it has been awhile ago.    

I also like MM pies with lots of toppings and bacon sounds good to me. I can understand your children taste buds can discern subtitle flavor better than us grown-ups.  

I can see the link Peter gave in his post makes sense.  

I think I read that even members on this forum really don’t think MM pies have much of sweetness in the crust except you.  Can you describe what kind of sweetness you tasted.  I know that is a tall task to ask of you.  How would you describe the texture of a MM pizza?

Thanks!

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I am having my doubts now if any of my attempt are really like a MM pizza.  I thought they were, but after reading so many reviews and looking at so many pictures on Google images, I don’t think my pies really look anything like the MM pies.  After thinking about it none of my attempts had the right texture of a MM pie.  They did have oven spring, but I don’t think the crumb structure was right.  What kind of flour are you using for your formulation?  Maybe it is just my mind that is confused in how a MM tasted since it has been awhile ago.    

Norma,

Although Dave mentioned the MM clone pizzas in relation to his small ovens, I don't want to turn this thread into another MM thread. However, with well over a hundred stores in the MM chain, where a large percentage of their pizzas are made by transient college students, it is highly unlikely that the pizzas made in all of the stores will look alike, and this seems evident to me when I have looked at Google and other images of the MM pizzas (http://www.google.com/search?q=mellow+Mushroom&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=HY34T-7LBeeK2QW4tunABg&biw=1432&bih=695&sei=I434T-qgMoO42wX378D1Bg). And very few of the photos of MM pizzas I have seen in the Google Images and elsewhere look like the official photos at the MM websites. Moreover, MM uses ovens that are different than your oven or my home oven. Also, with up to three (or maybe more) days of usability of the dough balls by MM stores, that can change the appearance of their pizzas and the textures of their crusts as well.

I don't mean to say that you are wrong in your assessment. However, until the differentiating factors are identified, there really is no way with certainty to say what changes should be made. If you are able to sample more real MM pizzas, that would give you more opportunities to identify at least some of the differentiating factors in the crusts and pizzas that might suggest changes to what you have been doing.

Peter

[Tampa]

Thx Peter.  I read the post & didn't realize sweetness was such a rich topic.

Norma, to answer your questions, the dough size was, as Peter suggested, for the little Deni/eWare so 11" - 12" diameter and the flour is Kyrol (in my case).  For me, the texture is usually a bit chewy.  I don't know how to describe sweetness other than the MM dough here in Tampa tastes sweet in the same way that molassas tastes sweet to me.  The amount of oven spring is often inconsistent at our local MM.  Occasionally, the rim voids are large enough that they might compare to some moderate pictures in the forum.  More often than not, the voids are smaller - I don't think the staff worries about dough trauma.

Dave

[Chicago Bob]

I don't know how to describe sweetness other than the MM dough here in Tampa tastes sweet in the same way that molassas tastes sweet to me.  

One last thing before sub runs all of us outa here.....

Dave, that is exactly how I was "trying" to relate the sweet taste here when I made my MM...'cept I believe I said it had a sort of an almost "fermented" type of sweetness that was very new to me and it jus made you want more, intoxicating...

Norma, I seem to recall your pizza looking very much like mine...dunno, but I thought you nailed it. It is true, they do look differently from store to store...heck, I don't know that I've ever seen any 2 look alike here at the Durham,NC. shop     no kidding!

Thanks sub!

Bob

[norma427]

Norma,

Although Dave mentioned the MM clone pizzas in relation to his small ovens, I don't want to turn this thread into another MM thread. However, with well over a hundred stores in the MM chain, where a large percentage of their pizzas are made by transient college students, it is highly unlikely that the pizzas made in all of the stores will look alike, and this seems evident to me when I have looked at Google and other images of the MM pizzas (http://www.google.com/search?q=mellow+Mushroom&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=HY34T-7LBeeK2QW4tunABg&biw=1432&bih=695&sei=I434T-qgMoO42wX378D1Bg). And very few of the photos of MM pizzas I have seen in the Google Images and elsewhere look like the official photos at the MM websites. Moreover, MM uses ovens that are different than your oven or my home oven. Also, with up to three (or maybe more) days of usability of the dough balls by MM stores, that can change the appearance of their pizzas and the textures of their crusts as well.

I don't mean to say that you are wrong in your assessment. However, until the differentiating factors are identified, there really is no way with certainty to say what changes should be made. If you are able to sample more real MM pizzas, that would give you more opportunities to identify at least some of the differentiating factors in the crusts and pizzas that might suggest changes to what you have been doing.

Peter

Peter,

I don’t want to highjack Dave’s thread either and turn it into a MM thread.  I can see from your link MM pizzas do look different.  You are right that using different ovens than MM can also change how our clone MM pizzas turn out and also how many days the dough is stored can change them.

I doubt I will be able to sample more MM pizzas, but maybe at some point I will. 

Norma

[norma427]

I read the post & didn't realize sweetness was such a rich topic.

Norma, to answer your questions, the dough size was, as Peter suggested, for the little Deni/eWare so 11" - 12" diameter and the flour is Kyrol (in my case).  For me, the texture is usually a bit chewy.  I don't know how to describe sweetness other than the MM dough here in Tampa tastes sweet in the same way that molassas tastes sweet to me.  The amount of oven spring is often inconsistent at our local MM.  Occasionally, the rim voids are large enough that they might compare to some moderate pictures in the forum.  More often than not, the voids are smaller - I don't think the staff worries about dough trauma.

Dave

Dave.

Yes, sweetness levels have been an MM topic.   

Thank you for answering my questions.  I will make a test dough ball to see what happens.

Norma

[norma427]

One last thing before sub runs all of us outa here.....

Dave, that is exactly how I was "trying" to relate the sweet taste here when I made my MM...'cept I believe I said it had a sort of an almost "fermented" type of sweetness that was very new to me and it jus made you want more, intoxicating...

Norma, I seem to recall your pizza looking very much like mine...dunno, but I thought you nailed it. It is true, they do look differently from store to store...heck, I don't know that I've ever seen any 2 look alike here at the Durham,NC. shop     no kidding!

Thanks sub!

Bob

Bob,

Thanks, but right now I don’t think I nailed my attempts.  Enough on this thread.

Sorry Dave!

Norma

[Chicago Bob]

Sorry Dave...I was saying sub because he had just pm me with info about the deni mod! Ha! I'm not too sharp.
So thanks for bringing back these 'lil ovens...had almost forgot I had one and now have some new tips to try'

Bob