Making neapolitan pizza with parchment paper

[simcha]

Hi everyone, complete pizza noob here and I've been trying to make some neapolitan pizzas with little success.

I'm using Jeff Varasano's recipe and the hydration is pretty high (62-65%).  The problems I'm running into is that the dough is super sticky and I'm using a ton of bench flour and it's still sticking to the counter, forget about the peel.

I was going to try making my pizza on parchment paper with no flour on the bottom and then putting the parchment on the peel and in the oven at 700 degrees.  Will this help solve my problem of working with a wet dough?

Just to recap:  When I take the dough out of the container I put it on a well floured surface and begin to knead out the dough from the center.  What happens is that I try to pick the dough up and it's stuck to the counter and stretches and get holes, etc. 

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.  I'm going to try making a few pies on Sunday.

Thanks for the help!

[Whiskyb]

I have used it as you describe, after about a minute I can open the door and pull the paper out effortlessly leaving the pie to cook on the stone

[simcha]

Cool thanks for the fast reply!  Eventually I would like to learn how to do it the real way, I feel the parchment paper is kinda cheating. 

I'll report back on Sunday after the pies are done.

[Pete-zza]

Eventually I would like to learn how to do it the real way, I feel the parchment paper is kinda cheating. 

simcha,

It depends on the circumstances but I usually consider using a dough hydration that is too high to begin with and then using a lot of bench flour to reduce the hydration to a manageable level as cheating. If you are using Jeff's recipe with 00 flour and a hydration of 62-65%, and you are not doing multiple stretches and folds and the like, then it is possible that your final hydration is too high. Given a choice, I would rather use parchment paper than lose the pizza.

Peter

[jeffereynelson]

Different doughs with the exact same hydration level can come out very differently. Different flours, gluten levels, kneading times and techniques, and more will cause your dough to out different even if the H2O % is the same. My personal recommendation would be to just start with a lower hydration to practice then build up.

[simcha]

Different doughs with the exact same hydration level can come out very differently. Different flours, gluten levels, kneading times and techniques, and more will cause your dough to out different even if the H2O % is the same. My personal recommendation would be to just start with a lower hydration to practice then build up.

Excellent suggestion!  Can someone recommend a neapolitan recipe and a NY style recipe that is geared towards a beginner? 

I tried the parchment paper today and the pies looked great but some of the paper got stuck on the bottom and burned.  Still have a lot of learning to do  .

[buceriasdon]

simcha, This is not a recipe I'm recommending but a bit more about using parchment paper. If you read down you will see he says to spray the paper with cooking spray and my experience backs that up.
Don
https://sites.google.com/site/hollosyt/quickrusticciabattapizza

[simcha]

simcha, This is not a recipe I'm recommending but a bit more about using parchment paper. If you read down you will see he says to spray the paper with cooking spray and my experience backs that up.
Don
https://sites.google.com/site/hollosyt/quickrusticciabattapizza

Thanks for the site!  The problem that happened to my pizza is I baked it at 650-700 degrees and the paper turned black and stuck to the bottom of the pizza.  Would oil prevent the paper from burning?

To be honest using the parchment paper is the closest I've gotten so far to a round 13" pie.  Other attempts using bench flour has yield me a small pie, about 9 inches or so and has a bitter taste from using too much flour.

[Pete-zza]

simcha,

The Reynolds parchment paper I have can withstand temperatures of up to 420 degrees F. I have used higher temperatures but I usually trim the parchment paper to roughly the shape of the pizza so that almost all of it is under the pizza.

In your case, 650-700 degrees F is perhaps too high. You might find it better to use a lower hydration.

Peter

[moose13]

High hydration doughs are tough to manage and take a little experience.
Have you tried a lower hydration to get started? The first couple high hydration dough batches i made were nightmares as far as handling and transferring. I went to a lower hydration and slowly moved up. I am now comfortable working with it.

[simcha]

High hydration doughs are tough to manage and take a little experience.
Have you tried a lower hydration to get started? The first couple high hydration dough batches i made were nightmares as far as handling and transferring. I went to a lower hydration and slowly moved up. I am now comfortable working with it.

I hear ya on the high hydration dough.  What's a good dough to start with?  I'd like to make NY style and neapolitan style.

Jeff's recipe was very easy to make and the dough smelled so good when it came out of the fridge only to be burned to a crisp in about 90 seconds.

I'm using KABF, any good recipes for this flour?

Thanks for the help!

[moose13]

I am far from being an expert on this but wouldn't KAAP be better?
When i make my dough i mix all the dry except 1 cup of flour. Add all of the water and slowly add the rest of the flour till the dough ball sticks to the bottom of the bowl but not the sides. Adding more flour if needed. Not sure of what the hydration levels might be.
I only have a conventional oven (500 deg.) so i am limited at what i can do.

[slopeyjoe]

Thanks for the site!  The problem that happened to my pizza is I baked it at 650-700 degrees and the paper turned black and stuck to the bottom of the pizza.  Would oil prevent the paper from burning?

To be honest using the parchment paper is the closest I've gotten so far to a round 13" pie.  Other attempts using bench flour has yield me a small pie, about 9 inches or so and has a bitter taste from using too much flour.

I use parchment paper all the time with a Neapolitan dough with no issues.  A conventional oven is turned up all the way to 550 with a pizza stone.  I find that the paper gets brown and crumbly where not covered by the pizza, but it slides out easily after just 2 minutes in the oven.  I have never had to use oil or spray.

[simcha]

Thanks for all the replies.  I'm using a Little Black Egg for baking so maybe this is making the difference.  The temperatures are a little tricky to control from using an oven since I use an IR thermometer to check the temperatures.

Either way I'd still like to learn to use the peel without parchment.  Still searching for a low hydration, recipe for beginners. 

Any suggestions?

[moose13]

Here is what i usually do.
Nothing fancy and no exact measurements.

4.5 cups KAAP
2.5 tsp ADY
1 tsp salt
1 tbsp sugar
1/8 cup oil
about 1.75 - 2 cups water.

mix all dry except 1/2 cup flour
add oil and water
mix with dough hook 2-3 minutes slowly adding rest of flour.
sometimes i add more water or more flour till dough sticks to bottom of mixing bowl but cleans the sides.
Knead 5 minutes, oil bowl and add dough, cover at room temp for 1 hour.
Cut into thirds and store in oiled containers at least overnight. Day 2-3 is the best.
This makes more of an American style crust. I have used a little more water in some batches for a bit more chew and puff.