Author Topic: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven  (Read 18623 times)

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Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #75 on: July 20, 2012, 11:14:25 AM »
Finding a manufacturer has not been easy... I have paid for the prototype sample only..


I have the URL for "Mighty Pizza Oven" and facebook, I still need to do it for the trademark, I need figure it out how online to save on cost.
Bert


Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #76 on: July 20, 2012, 01:16:02 PM »
I just used legalzoom to file for a trademark, it was simpler than I thought.  Thanks for reminding me Bill...
Bert

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #77 on: July 20, 2012, 06:49:19 PM »
That will be great...

how hot does 2stone grill reach on the grill?

MO top stone once it is heated, there is a minimal contact with side to lose any heat, especially with the constant hot fast flow air. I couldn't measure the air flow out of the chimney, I tried use an air speed gauges, the hot air out of the chimney melted the guage blades instantaneously.

I have used MO on multiple occasions for family gathering where i cooked 8+ pizzas. But since I was doing everything myself, the bottom stone had time recover between each pizza, I never noticed any inconsistency.

Bert, does your device allow the lid of the grill to be closed? If if doesn't, I think that could be an advantage for the 2stone, because it allows all the heat that the grill is putting out to collect in the lid and preheat the insert.  Covering the outside areas of the grill with foil will achieve something similar (or selling a cover that creates the same effect), but being able to close the lid of the grill makes pre-heating a bit simpler.  I think expecting your customers to break out the aluminum foil is a bit much.

The odds that this insert will give you less than 90 second Neapolitan pizza bake times are, imo, pretty much non existent, so you should be developing/marketing this device for NY pizza.  When I refer to top/bottom heat issues, it's within the context of the ideal NY pizza bake time- 4 minutes.  As you extend the bake time, any top/bottom heat disparity tends to disappear.  But trust me, you don't want to extend the bake time.  Longer bakes produce inferior pizza.

How long were the 8+ pizza party pizzas baked for?  More than 7 minutes each, right?

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #78 on: July 20, 2012, 08:34:25 PM »
I wouldn't be wasting any body time if my oven was taking that long to bake a pizza, it takes 3 to 4 minutes each... no foil covering ... no lid closed.... in half an hour I can start backing...I have to rotate each pizza during the 4 minutes, otherwise it will be black overcooked on one side..

The front oven handle prevent the the grill lid from closing all the way down... I closed the grill lid (up to the handle) couple of time when it was windy...

I forgot to mention, there is an 1/2" to 1.25" gap between the top stone and the oven ceiling depending on the location of the top stone (in this prototype I have setting 3/4" apart).... This gap acts as an insulator for top stone, the lower the stone the thicker the insulation is...  the air in this gap  is sitting still getting hotter and hotter and not being circulated, acting as a hot insulator (just theory, no data to confirm) ....  in addition to the direct heat from the flames around the the bottom stone and the hot air that flow fast constantly hitting the upper stone, the upper stone gets hotter and hotter with time... I don't have data how much hotter it gets after time or how fast..

I got the charcoal grill from sam's, there are a zillion part... I will try to put it together, with my little helpers (3y & 4y kids) it may take me a while...

I never pushed the oven to the extreme side... the oven is built to handle extreme temperature, I need to find out how hot I can get it using an average grill (propane or charcoal) and if this hot temperature is usable for baking Neapolitan pizza...




Bert

Offline ThatsAmore

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #79 on: July 20, 2012, 08:50:21 PM »

I got the charcoal grill from sam's, there are a zillion part... I will try to put it together, with my little helpers (3y & 4y kids) it may take me a while...


If you are not familiar, lump charcoal burns much hotter than briquettes.  Also, please buy an electric charcoal lighter. Using a solvent to ignite your coal is an element you really don't want to add as a negative, IMO.

If you already know this .... Never Mind  :-X


Who put that pie in my eye ?

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2012, 09:02:49 PM »
Thanks...I have not used charcoal for over 15 year, I did get lump (40 pound bag for $15 from Sam's), the oven has a propane starter...

Here is few pictures of few pies i made few weeks ago, you can see the effect I didn't rotate the pie in time.

Have a great weekend everyone...
Bert

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #81 on: July 21, 2012, 06:36:12 AM »
I can't sleep and still too dark to start assembling my new oven.... Hopefully I can assemble some of it before my little helpers wake up.

Here is few more pictures, for simple topping like the one I am showing below (olive oil and herbs mix) it takes less than 3 minutes to bake ...

Bert

Offline rcbaughn

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #82 on: July 21, 2012, 06:59:24 AM »
That looks like a great pie. I love simple when it comes to pizza. I would love to try a muffaletta pie sometime though, and a quick bake time would be better so your setup would be prime for that kind of pie. It wouldn't over cook the tapenade or meat.
More is better..... and too much is just right.

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #83 on: July 21, 2012, 07:23:40 AM »
thanks.. Never had muffaletta pie before... simple for me is the best too
Bert


Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #84 on: July 22, 2012, 05:38:05 PM »
I got my new charcoal grill assembled... I wasn't able to reach any high temperature worth mentioning. I was disappointed... It looks like i didn't use enough charcoal... It was a long and messy experience, sparks flying everywhere... I need more practice.

So I went back to my old gas grill, I did quick cleaning and tried my last experiment again. I covered all unused area of the grill with foil, closed the grill lid this time, MPO vent fully open, used 13" round stone (bottom stone) and used a thicker square stone (upper stone). Top stone temperature was over 800 within 1/2 hour and bottom stove temperature reached over 900 (not consistently all over)

I repeated the above experiment with 14" round stone, top stone was below 800 with half hour..

This was just quick experiment, In summary there is a good potential for MPO to bake Neapolitan Pizza... I need to bring bottom stone temperature down... I think I can do it cheaply by placing and 13" aluminum disk under stone. I used to use these aluminum disks to prevent ceramic disk from breaking... The smallest disk I have is 14" Need to get a 13" one.

Again, this was a quick test.... Hopefully, one of the well know forum members will be willing to witness next test and help take more readings and documents MPO results...
Bert

Online shuboyje

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #85 on: July 22, 2012, 05:46:38 PM »

This was just quick experiment, In summary there is a good potential for MPO to bake Neapolitan Pizza... I need to bring bottom stone temperature down... I think I can do it cheaply by placing and 13" aluminum disk under stone. I used to use these aluminum disks to prevent ceramic disk from breaking... The smallest disk I have is 14" Need to get a 13" one.


I'm curious why you feel this way?  Is it based on factors other then those you've posted? 

Given the design as it seems, and the data you have posted so far I think you are going to have the same top heat issue all other bottom heat only ovens have.  For Neapolitan you really want the dome temperature at least a couple hundred degrees higher then the floor and even then you also have superheated convection over the pie on top of that via open flame.  From what I see you have neither.
-Jeff

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #86 on: July 22, 2012, 06:02:18 PM »

Try split firebrick for the floor, aluminum doesn't seem like it would help .

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #87 on: July 22, 2012, 06:27:34 PM »
Here is few pics,

shuboyje , I am learning about Neapolitan pizza as we go... based on what I understood so far, I need to get my top stone over 800 F and lower stone at about 700's or the same as the top... based on today experiment, top stone can reach 800+ , next step reducing bottom stone temperature, I have one of the requirement so far...  am I  100% sure it can be done with MPO? no, but I know that MPO can very high temperature with MPO in short period of time.

Bert

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #88 on: July 22, 2012, 06:34:40 PM »
Tscarborough, I used a thin aluminum disk before under a ceramic stone... The stone didn't crack, but the stone didn't get hot as the cordierite pizza stone that I am using now. split firebrick are thin\k and take too long heat and not commercial practical for my oven. The bottom stone has to be round and fits under MPO
Bert

Online shuboyje

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #89 on: July 22, 2012, 06:50:25 PM »
Well lucky for you you are in a great location to learn about Neapolitan pizza first hand from one of this forum(and probably this country's) best.  Your challenge is gonna be getting the heat up top.  People have come close in a LBE, so there is hope, but it is very tough and an LBE has a massively oversized burner to work with.  To give you a little start, a neapolitan oven would ideally(for my preference) have a floor temp of 900F+ and a dome temp of around 1200F with the ceiling covered intense flame.  Thats is a lot of heat, with most of it up top.  Your stones have higher conductivity and your ceiling is lower, so the temperatures needed are probably a bit lower, but the balance of heat stays the same.  Your heat source comes from the bottom, but you need the most heat up top.  See where the challenge arises?

I love your logo.
-Jeff

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #90 on: July 22, 2012, 07:25:10 PM »
Thanks Jeff, the logo was pretty easy to come up with, it is MPO front view with a mustache.

Balancing will be my next challenge, and the other challenge, have the time and patience to learn how prepare Neapolitan dough…

Bert,
Bert

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #91 on: July 24, 2012, 07:34:57 AM »
To improve heat retention in MPO top stone in my quest of reaching Neapolitan Baking temperature with MPO, I inserted 4 layers of aluminum foil, between top stone and MPO ceiling to insulate and reflect back stone heat radiation. Without this foil, the air gap will only provide conduction and convection insulation for the top stone.

I also covered half of the bottom stone with one layer of foil, the inside half which gets much hotter.

I was able to get 700+ temperature top and bottom stones, temperature varied between front, back, center, left and right but all within 700+ range, did not reach 800+, it was little windy outside. I will try the experiment again on a non windy day. This weekend I will also try baking pizza at these high temperatures, may not be Neapolitan recipe.

I have other ideas on how to reach higher temperatures with MPO, this one is the simplest and the cheapest.

MPO has lots of potential, but it all depend on the initial lunch... Diffrent sizes, shapes and quality can be made to fit different users need. For the initial lunch, MPO will be based my current protoptype size, material and accessories. In addition to more experiment, I need to figure out price, Craig provided great input, regarding this... 
Bert


Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #92 on: July 25, 2012, 07:44:30 AM »
I have been operating MPO on 36,000 BTU.  I found my gas grill manual, each burner is rated for 12000 btu.
 
Bert

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #93 on: July 25, 2012, 08:06:52 AM »
That's a shame. Any possibility you could return it and get a model with higher output?

Or you could bore the holes in the burners a size larger?  But that would defeat the idea of making the MPO fit an "average" grill, right?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 08:09:20 AM by pizzaneer »
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #94 on: July 25, 2012, 08:51:39 AM »
the biggest problem that i see is the vent.  I don't like the fact that the air isn't directed properly as we have seen with the LBE's.  The hot air should enter bottom rear, be forced over the top of the pizza and exit the front (near stone level).  I'm not saying that i don't like your concept or design, it just doesn't follow what "we" have made work in the LBE.  You are really not letting the hot air do much/any work except to heat the top stone.  I believe it could be doing more.

Just my .02
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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #95 on: July 25, 2012, 09:39:25 AM »
Brian, I'm not an advocate of enlarging burner hole sizes. There is a certain amount of back pressure required for complete combustion along the length of the burner tube and there is a point of diminishing returns concerning hole size. I've built a few burners in my time, not that makes me an expert, but my experience has been if you increase burner hole size an increase in pressure at the regulator is needed to push the gas to the end of the tube. There is a balance between fuel useage and BTUs supplied that was taken in to account when the burner was designed.
Don

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #96 on: July 25, 2012, 09:40:50 AM »
That's a shame. Any possibility you could return it and get a model with higher output?

Or you could bore the holes in the burners a size larger?  But that would defeat the idea of making the MPO fit an "average" grill, right?

Here is a real basic primer on burner technology...
http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/smokehouse-plans/smokehouse-burner/making

an increase in heat requires an increase in fuel flow (larger orifice&more air)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 09:44:43 AM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #97 on: July 25, 2012, 10:01:01 AM »
Brian, I had this grill for over 8 years .... the intention was to replace it with high end one when I build my outdoor kitchen that I have been planning for the past 8 years...

I can modify the wholes, but I won't be able to know actual BTU. I have been looking for a grill replacement, I am not sure which what to buy and what would I be using it for..

Gene, I can't achieve baking in less than 4 minutes if I don't have it open. The flow is not uniform all around, but it does contribute speeding the baking process. And depending at what level the stone is set at, hot air will contribute more heat when set at lower level than at a higher level setting.

At 600 deg F, MPO has been working great, with consistant / repeatable results using 36000 BTU.

I started going to higher temperature, by coverring unused areas of the grill as you recommended, I have not been able to get repeatable results and find a good balance between top stone / bottom stone and air flow, it looks I need more than 36000 BTU.
Bert

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #98 on: July 25, 2012, 10:07:39 AM »
Agreed to you both Don and Bob.  In another thread, there was some discussion of making a very small hole size increase.  Probably only discussed because the regulator in that case allowed it.  Sorry I brought it up.

In any event, modifying the grill permanently should not be on the design table.  What Bert's doing is trying to make a device that can be dropped onto an average-Joe kind of grill.  I think.

To get it working on his present setup, he would have to make some changes in the grill itself - not what he's after.

Anyone have any thoughts on what constitutes an "average" grill these days?
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Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #99 on: July 25, 2012, 10:18:43 AM »
What Bert's doing is trying to make a device that can be dropped onto an average-Joe kind of grill.  I think.

That's right Brian, and how high can I get without any mofifcation to MPO.

To get it working on his present setup, he would have to make some changes in the grill itself - not what he's after.

That's correct.

Anyone have any thoughts on what constitutes an "average" grill these days?.

Really important to identidy.

Bert


 

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