Author Topic: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven  (Read 14577 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2012, 02:23:45 AM »
And then you've got licensing concerns.  I am by no means an expert in patent law, but, when a person invents something and patents it, doesn't another inventor who invents something similar have to prove the new item's uniqueness?

If the other inventor sues him. If you are building something similar to something already granted patent protection, you should have a legal opinion in your back packet stating why it is not infringing or else face a serious risk of enhanced damages (up to 3X).

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There's no court in the land that would ever consider this a unique invention.  This is a 2stone + additional features, and, since 2stone has applied for a patent, should you decide to manufacture this device, I don't see how you can avoid paying them a licensing fee (if they even grant you the rights).  Am I missing some aspect of the law here?

It’s not that cut and dried. It’s all about the claims and how they are written - and more specifically, the claims allowed by the examiner. You are probably correct, but without reviewing the application and ultimately the granted patent (if granted), it is impossible to make such a blanket statement. It can also be surprisingly easy to get around patent claims. For example, simply enclosing the top stone in the unit with another sheet of stainless may be enough – maybe stick some ceramic insulation in there with it (5% royalty for me if you use that idea).  I don’t know if this would work, but you get the idea. I’ve seen patents circumvented with much much less.

Looking at his pictures, I would not say that it is out of the question that he could patent certain elements of his product. Are they things that would be meaningful and worth patenting? I don’t know. Having been through more than a few patent applications and examination processes, I can tell you it is an expensive, time consuming, and very frustrating process.

On the matter of price, “rules” like 5X are almost never a good way to price something. Clearly, the right price is the one that maximizes profit. There is a lot of science behind pricing – well beyond the scope of this note. Since you have already designed and built a prototype, as a first step, I would encourage you to do some research and try to determine what people might pay for it. Use similar products as a baseline and then list your additional (or reduced) features or utility. Try to estimate the value of those additional/less features and then adjust your price up or down accordingly. Gut check your net price with people who would be target customers. This forum would be a good place. If you are going to sell through a distributor or anyone who takes a cut, reduce your price by that amount. Then look at your costs and estimate your potential volume. Can you make enough $$ to make it worth your time? If not, consider how a redesign might make it suitably profitable.

Good luck. I admire your entrepreneurial and creative spirit.

Craig
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.


Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2012, 05:17:33 AM »
I do appreciate everyone straight forward feedback….

My design contains and controls the flow of heat across the cooking chamber and the temperature in the heated gap between the cooking stones; all other existing designs do not. 

My objective at this stage is to prove that my design preform significantly better than any existing designs and it will add value.

FYI …Last night, I repeated previous night experiment, where I covered the unused area of the grill with aluminum foil. This time I covered all the rest of the unused areas (1” gap on left side of the oven), within ten minutes, the grease at the bottom of the grill combusted.  I quickly shutoff the burners, and closed and disconnected the propane tank, removed my oven and closed the grill lid, it took a while for the flame to go out. I guess it has been a while since the last time I cleaned my grill. I use for baking pizza more than grilling. Anyway, something to make a note of and share with the forum DIY members  to be careful when experimenting
Bert,

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2012, 07:30:30 AM »
Any input on how guage performance in comparison to other oven inserts?

Thanks

Bert
Bert,

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2012, 07:54:10 AM »
Side by side with the best known competitor on a larger grill. Could then use that unit as a demonstrator/marketing tool further on down the road.
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Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2012, 08:12:28 AM »
The performance test is more for my own piece of mind than for marketing… Does anyone knows if there is any independent testing facilities for such a thing.
Bert,

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2012, 08:33:16 AM »
The performance test is more for my own piece of mind than for marketing… Does anyone knows if there is any independent testing facilities for such a thing.
'independent testing facilities" ......to test the performance of your unit AND other inserts available on the market?
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Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2012, 09:02:07 AM »
Bob,  to test my oven, is there any certification or test that these grill accessories need to meet or comply with.
Bert,

buceriasdon

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2012, 09:13:36 AM »
I would contact Serious Eats/ Slice and send one to a staff writer there, have them put it through it's paces and give you their impressions. Same thing here. Get one in the hands of someone who knows how to bake pizza. Keep the correspondence confidential until the reviewers and yourself are satisfied that out of the box your unit will perform as advertised. I mention this so as to avoid the pitfalls of the inventor of the Pizza Kettle Insert.
Don

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=19669.0
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 09:23:45 AM by buceriasdon »

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2012, 09:40:37 AM »
I will try a reviewer first...
Bert,

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2012, 09:51:48 AM »
I would contact Serious Eats/ Slice and send one to a staff writer there, have them put it through it's paces and give you their impressions. Same thing here. Get one in the hands of someone who knows how to bake pizza. Keep the correspondence confidential until the reviewers and yourself are satisfied that out of the box your unit will perform as advertised. I mention this so as to avoid the pitfalls of the inventor of the Pizza Kettle Insert.
Don

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=19669.0
In a way this was not a pitfall.....they showed him how to make his product do much, much more. Not good though I guess if all you want to do is sell a piece of crap!  ;D
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Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2012, 10:17:07 AM »
I am extreemly staisfied with the oven for my own use. As the deigner of it, my opinion dosen't count and I consider myself an average pizza maker...
Bert,

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2012, 10:43:08 AM »
I really believe the oven as is, meets the needs of an average pizza maker like me and the extreme pizza makers, I will back up my claim with testing as time permit...
Bert,

Online scott123

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2012, 10:56:19 AM »
I would contact Serious Eats/ Slice and send one to a staff writer there, have them put it through it's paces and give you their impressions. Same thing here. Get one in the hands of someone who knows how to bake pizza.

The 2stone has a long and proven track record for producing NY style pizza in typical gas grill.  The thermodynamics on this device aren't fundamentally different.  This won't produce Neapolitan bake times or wood fired oven results (you need LBE btus for those), but it will churn out great NY pie after great NY pie.

Testing for this is completely unnecessary.

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2012, 11:19:22 AM »
The 2stone has a long and proven track record for producing NY style pizza in typical gas grill.  The thermodynamics on this device aren't fundamentally different.  This won't produce Neapolitan bake times or wood fired oven results (you need LBE btus for those), but it will churn out great NY pie after great NY pie.

Testing for this is completely unnecessary.

How else is he going to get feedback he can cite to potential investors?  Aside from all the legal issues, there are still the financial hurdles to overcome in getting a first production run into the hands of buyers.  I agree, I don't really see much difference between this and the 2stone.  Slightly different shape, different usage model, but it works about the same.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2012, 11:37:25 AM »
Scott, I will make a believer out of you one day. The basic is the same, but MPO (I like to call it MO) has the ability to concentrate and channel the flowing heat in a small chamber. My gas grill has only three working burners only, I don't remember what is the BTU rating anymore, I don't think it is more than 12000 BTU each, I got it from Lowe's 8 years ago, I couldn't find replacement parts when I tried years ago. The other night, the temperature reached 700 deg F when I covered the area over the bad burner with foil, and last night, I covered the other remaining space, the temperature inside oven started to increase really fast, I had to abort due to the grease fire... I think the temperature would of reached over 800, can't proof it ... I will not try this experiment on my old oven again... I am looking to buy new gas grill..Sam's has these hybrid grill, not sure if I want to go this route, or buy one gas and one charcoal grill.
Bert,

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2012, 11:41:54 AM »
pizzaneer I will make a believer out you too. ;)
Bert,

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #56 on: July 19, 2012, 11:44:47 AM »
pizzaneer I will make a believer out you too. ;)
 Ok, but I'm hard to please  8)


Bert, once the grease burns off, it's gone.  My LBE gets over 1000 degrees in the burn chamber.  The first time I fired it, it smoked and stunk.  I let it go and now it burns perfectly clean.   Try it again, and don't panic.  If the flames get out of hand, drop the lid on them, but leave the heat on until it stops smoking.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #57 on: July 19, 2012, 11:50:56 AM »
 Ok, but I'm hard to please  8)


Bert, once the grease burns off, it's gone.  My LBE gets over 1000 degrees in the burn chamber.  The first time I fired it, it smoked and stunk.  I let it go and now it burns perfectly clean.   Try it again, and don't panic.  If the flames get out of hand, drop the lid on them, but leave the heat on until it stops smoking.
Hey, good basic grilling skills there Brian.... ;D
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Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #58 on: July 19, 2012, 11:55:25 AM »
Hey, good basic grilling skills there Brian.... ;D

You'd be amazed (well, maybe not) how many people have no clue they have to burn off the crud BEFORE cooking.  I can't eat anything off a grill at any of my in-laws without getting sick.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Online scott123

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Re: Introducing Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #59 on: July 19, 2012, 12:23:00 PM »
Alright, Bert, I'll tell you what... these kinds of projects bring me a great amount of enjoyment.  I'm willing, for now, to put the patent and potential retail price issues aside and, with an open mind, both see what this device can do as well as provide assistance in improving it. Be aware, though, that, regardless of how much assistance I provide, should you ever go into production and start selling it, there's a good chance that I will end up a vocal opponent.

First off, we need a lot more temperature readings than chamber air temp or case temp. We need stone temps, both hearth and ceiling.  In an ideal scenario, we could get hearth bottom and hearth top readings along withe ceiling bottom and ceiling top, but, considering your setup, that may not be feasible. Drilling holes in cordierite tends to weaken it, but I'd really love to have a core temp of each stone as well.

A huge part of these bottom heat scenario devices is top to bottom heat ratio.  You might be able to hit 800 in the baking chamber, but if the bottom stone is 800 and the top 700, then that's going to be a problem.  The 2stone gets around this by using a very poor conductor for a hearth (fibrament). You can read about the differences between the cordierite you're using now and fibrament here:

FibraMent vs. Cordierite (Engineering Data)

Be aware that cordierite can vary in composition, so the numbers won't match up exactly, but this gives you a good general idea of the differences.

Whatever gas grill you purchase, make sure you keep it pretty generic- no lower than about 30K btu and no higher than 60K. You might want to think about the fact that if the price point on this device ends up being a bit high, you will be targeting a higher income demographic, who will most likely have a higher btu grill.


 

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