Occident ER Flour????

[Jackitup]

I live 6 blocks from the Con Agra Mill and get 50 pound bags of flour for 12-13 bucks. I called them to see if they handle any 00 type flours for high temp Neapolitan pizza. Their answer was "Occident ER flour" would meet the mark. Anyone have any experience with this. It only comes in 50# bags as I said but the gal I talked to said she would get me 5# to try out sometime tomorrow.

Jon

[Pete-zza]

Jon,

Do you know what the "ER" stands for? You can see the specs for the ConAgra Occidental flour at page 5 of the document at http://buyersguide.foodproductdesign.com/media/54/library/FPDconagramills3.pdf.

Peter

[Jackitup]

I thought of asking that a couple hours ago....right after their office closed ;-) But that will be my first question tomorrow if/when she can out my sample bag together and calls me. I figured it would be a simple aearch but haven't found anything, unless I'm missing it.

Jon

[Pete-zza]

Jon,

If you look at Reply 16 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9281.msg81424.html#msg81424, you will see a reference to another ConAgra flour, Kyrol ER, where the ER appears to stand for enriched.

If I am right, it looks like ConAgra is doing the same sort of thing that General Mills is doing with its Harvest King flour--recommending that flour for Neapolitan style pizza (http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/flour/type/european-patent-blend). But, unlike 00 flours, the Occidental and Harvest King flours are malted (with lower fallling numbers than 00 flours) and no doubt are milled differently than the 00 flours. I believe their ash contents may be similar to the ash content of the 00 flours. The protein contents of the two flours are about the same as a basic Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour but I believe that is where the similarity ends. Also, if you will be using the Occident flour at very high oven temperatures, I think you may run into problems because of the malting of the flour.

I have not tried the Occident flour but others familiar with that flour, such as dmcavanagh and Norma, may be able to comment on that flour. I believe the Occident flour may be bromated, whereas 00 flours are not. Others may also be able to comment on problems you might experience if you plan to use that flour to make Neapolitan style pizzas at very high oven temperatures.

Peter

[Jackitup]

Well, I got my Kettle Pizza insert today and of course I can't "NOT" use it ;-) So for tonite I'm going to use an emergency dough to 'scratch my itch' and break her in. Using 2 stones, top and bottom (haven't dropped the ceiling yet) and see how it goes. I'm going to start the pie on a screen set on the stone and as the crust sets I'll slide directly onto the stone if no bottom burning noticed. Looking forward to some 00 flour in the next few days. Lump charcoal and cherry wood to start it off. Maybe this Occident stuff will be the middle ground for this thing between NY and Neapolitan??
Jon

[Pete-zza]

Jon,

Norma did some gluten mass tests on the Occident flour, two Caputo 00 flours and the Harvest King flour and, as noted in the list at Reply 70 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18075.msg184661/topicseen.html#msg184661, the Occident flour seems closer to the Caputo 00 Red flour than the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour but considerably above the gluten mass content of the Harvest King flour. Gluten mass values don't tell us much about the quality of the gluten but I would say that the Occident flour might put you somewhere between Neapolitan and NY but closer to the NY in terms of taste and maybe other characteristics. Similar protein contents don't necessarily translate into similar taste.

Peter

[scott123]

Jon, since you most likely won't be hitting Neapolitan temps until you drop the ceiling- and possibly not even then, the occident flour should serve you extremely well.

How did you end up approaching the top stone?  How about a photo?

[Jackitup]

I'm using the ones my brother got from Red Sky Grilling for right now, he got 2. I'll probably make a cardboard template and head to Continental Clay tomorrow and see what they have that's close. I already know they are way cheaper. The top stone opening will be spun to the front after lump is going well and right after adding the wood. If they will cut the stone for me, thinking of getting a full stone for the top, cut off that little 1/2 moon piece and have that sitting on top of the larger piece and slide into place to fill the trap door spot after adding the wood, with the dropped ceiling of course

Jon

[norma427]

Jon,

I agree with Scott, if you won't be approaching Neapolitan temperatures you might like the Occident flour.  I did like it.  The Occident flour I used was bromated.

Norma

[dmcavanagh]

The occident flour I get is the exact same stuff Norma gets, it comes from the same supplier, who repackages it into 5# bags for sale in "country stores". It's unbleached, bromated flour, and I believe the "EF" may mean extra fine as in the grind of the flour. The occident flour has an almost powdery feel and consistency, probably will give you your best result when in a NY style bake.

[Pete-zza]

The occident flour I get is the exact same stuff Norma gets, it comes from the same supplier, who repackages it into 5# bags for sale in "country stores". It's unbleached, bromated flour, and I believe the "EF" may mean extra fine as in the grind of the flour.

Dave,

What Jon posted says ER, not EF.

Peter

[dmcavanagh]

Ooops, sorry about that! Don't have a clue on ER, but what I said about the flour being a very fine grind still stands. I just used some to make doughs for the weekend.

[dmcavanagh]

Not sure if this has already been linked, but here was my original thread about occident flour   http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11516.0

[Jackitup]

I ask the secretary gal and she did say as Peter I think alluded to, that it meant some malt was added to it. It is designed for hi heat applications though. We'll see Sat nite. I have a 1400 gram dough ball in the fridge for 4, 15" pies. I used the following formulation.
F-100%
H20-63%
S-2.8%
Y-.2%
It will have a 4 day ferment by Sat nite. I bulked it last nite, will re-ball into 4 separate 350 gram dough balls tonite. Looking forward to the 2nd firing and test drive of the Red Headed Kettle and trying out this flour!

Jon

[Jackitup]

Not sure if this has already been linked, but here was my original thread about occident flour   http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11516.0

Thanks for that link I hadn't seen that one, looked thru many of the others.

Has anyone done them with hi heat yet, 700-800+?

Jon