Sourdough Confusion

[JD]

Newbie to the forum but I've been reading & experimenting for months now... It seems the more I read, the more contradicting information I find.

I'm using 100% sourdough (no commercial yeast) and loosely following Varasano's dough making process. I'm fairly happy with the flavor of the dough, but the crumb and spring really lack what I'm looking for.

My question is simply this: Can a 100% sourdough dough really do any rising while in a 35-45 degree fridge? I've let my dough cold ferment for 2-5 days (on multiple attempts) and non of them gave me the spring I was looking for.

I recently came back from a business trip of almost a month (at which time my starter was never fed). When I took it out of the fridge in the morning, I let it warm up completely and observed its activity throughout the day BEFORE feeding it. The starter took off like I had just fed it and didnt slow down until the next morning. So why would my dough be any different?

I've been using about 10% starter on a 65% hydration dough using Gold Metal BFB, and using Varasano's process, and finally cooking in a homemade WFO. I'm pretty confident I'm doing all the right things, but the cold is too much for my starter to handle.

Agree or disagree?

[TXCraig1]

I agree 100%. Keep the sourdough OUT of the fridge.

Try 65F. Here is how I do it: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18509.0.html Sourdough seems very happy there. I use 1.3% Ischia starter (~62% hydration, 3% salt), 24 hours in bulk at 65F, 12 hours in balls at 65F, and then the last 8-12 hours in balls at 65-77F as needed to get the dough where I want it when I want it.

I get almost no rise in the first 24 hours which is exactly how I want it. It balls beautifully. By the 36th hour, I'm seeing signs of life. Most of the rise happens in the last 8-12 hours.

Here are some recent pies made with that method: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14249.msg193257.html#msg193257

Happy to help with any specific questions you might have.

Craig

[JD]

Thanks Craig, nicely done.

I pulled a doughball from my fridge this morning and will let it sit in 75ish degree temperature for 10-12 hours. It has already been in the fridge for a couple days so I'll try your method next time... but tonight I will do a quick pizza as an experiment just to see if the longer warm fermentation period gives me better spring.

Appreciate the help!


 

[pizzablogger]

I agree with Craig.

A few years ago Marco's (Pizzanapoletana) posts inspired me to make my first attempts at "room"/ambient temperature fermentations with small amounts of sourdough starter and I have never looked back.  For home bakes I do my fermentations in my basement, which consistently is between 60-65°F on the floor in the corner where no windows are for all but the hottest weeks of the year. I've never had a problem with spring and lift in the resultant pizzas.

To add further support to your suspicions, for my market stand I cannot ferment in my house. So I use a giant Igloo cooler that stays in a hot room. I have to use three medium sized tupperware containers of ice to regulate temperatures.  After a couple of mishaps of having the dough too hot, I erred on the side of caution for two weeks in a row by adding too much ice to the cooler. The temps were in the high 40s to the low 50s in the cooler. The pizzas made from these doughs had very little spring and were quite flatbread-ish.

Since then I have found the right amount of ice to maintain temps in the low to mid 60s in the cooler during the bulk ferment. The crust had the usual spring and hole structure. 

Now I do use a cold fermented sourdough for my square pizzas and have rarely had issues with spring, but I am also using 20% starter in those pizzas, which is much more than the 2.25% used in my market stand pies. --K

[JD]

Interesting to hear you do not have spring issues when you up your yeast to 20%. It must be yeast-specific for me, because when I feed my starter (which is essentially a dough with 50% yeast) it's fairly dormant the entire week in the fridge ... It's not until I bring it back to room temperature the yeast takes off.

I do live in Mississippi so maybe the yeast just prefers horribly hot & humid weather 

[pizzablogger]

Interesting to hear you do not have spring issues when you up your yeast to 20%. It must be yeast-specific for me, because when I feed my starter (which is essentially a dough with 50% yeast) it's fairly dormant the entire week in the fridge ... It's not until I bring it back to room temperature the yeast takes off.

I do live in Mississippi so maybe the yeast just prefers horribly hot & humid weather 

Yes. The starter is indeed fairly dormant the entire time it is in the fridge and does not rise in the container until I take it out of the fridge and warm it up.

I only use room temperature starter to make pizza.

My round pizzas use a small amount of starter and are never refrigerated.
My square pizza uses a large amount of starter and is cold fermented in the refrigerator.

But again, the starter itself is never used to make pizza straight out of the fridge and still cold.

Hope that clears things up. -K

[JD]

Well I wound up making the pizza tonight after an 'accidental' 14hr warm ferment starting this morning (in addition to a 2 day cold fridge ferment). I did get a lot more spring, but the dough was so overly extensible I couldn't handle it without it instantly becoming too thin. After some reading, it's probably due to being over-fermented (20% starter and a semi-high hydration dough at 63%).

I'm excited to try the warm ferment at low percentage starter instead of what I just did.

Will update, thanks for the help so far