Author Topic: Wild vs Cake Yeast  (Read 1463 times)

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Offline bakeshack

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Wild vs Cake Yeast
« on: July 22, 2012, 02:51:15 AM »
I made two batches of dough this week - the first one was my usual sourdough NP and the other was a cake yeast dough with cold fermentation.  I wanted to do a head-to-head test and compare the difference in flavor, texture, appearance, etc.  The oven floor was around 840-860F.  Bake times were between 60-70 secs.  

Wild yeast starter dough:

100% Caputo Pizzeria
58% Water
1.2% Starter
2.8% Salt

Bulk ferment for 28 hours (55-60F), balled for 16 hrs (75-78F).  


Cake yeast dough:

100% Caputo Pizzeria
58% Water
0.4% Cake yeast
2.8% Salt

Bulk ferment for 2 hrs (70F), balled for 48 hrs (refrigerator), taken out to room temp (70-75F) for about 6 hrs before using.

I immediately noticed the color and appearance of the crust between the two were quite significant.  The cake yeast had a darker rim with significantly less noticeable leopard spots.  I am not sure if I messed up with the timing of the fermentation for the CY dough but I figured it was about 2-3 hrs late compared to the Sourdough batch.  The dough ball was slightly smaller in size.  If the sourdough ball rose about 1.8-2x its original size, the CY dough ball was around 1.5x.  

With regards to flavor, I loved both.  I was very pleased with the CY dough's flavor although I still prefer the flavor from the sourdough.  That's just me and I can see why some people actually prefer it over the sourdough.  The wheat flavor was really shining through.

The texture of both were very soft and melt in your mouth tender with just the right amount of chew (when it started to cool off a bit).  I just love the texture of the sourdough where it almost disintegrates in your mouth without effort.  I did not see that with the CY dough.  If you try to tear the crust apart, it just gives.  It is quite difficult to describe in words but maybe, Craig and other sourdough fanatic members will understand what I am trying to say (and help me describe it  :-D).  

I realized with this exercise that I have not spent enough time learning the benefits of cold fermentation (especially during summertime) and next time will be much better.  I am not sure if the CY dough pies I made did it enough justice.  Next time I will try the room temp vs cold temp CY dough.  

The 1st six pics are from the sourdough and the last 3 pics are from the CY dough.  

Marlon


« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 02:53:19 AM by bakeshack »


Offline bakeshack

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2012, 02:52:49 AM »
more:

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2012, 06:05:03 AM »
Outstanding pies Marlon. The CY does not particularly need to be cold fermented. Try .02-.04 for room temp along side your sourdough workflow and you will probably see pies that are visually very similar - maybe more spring from the CY. You will also get that melt in your mouth tenderness.

What strain of SD are you using?

John

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2012, 09:30:40 AM »
I just love the texture of the sourdough where it almost disintegrates in your mouth without effort.  I did not see that with the CY dough.  If you try to tear the crust apart, it just gives.  It is quite difficult to describe in words but maybe, Craig and other sourdough fanatic members will understand what I am trying to say (and help me describe it  :-D).  


Marlon,

I described what I believe you experienced with your sourdough leavening system at Reply 162 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg94261/topicseen.html#msg94261, as follows:

With natural starters and natural preferments, the texture of the finished crust, and especially the crumb, is better in my opinion, in the sense that the structure of the crumb can be pulled and it will stretch and then pull back. Unlike the crumb structure of a loaf of bread that can have a fairly tight cell structure with voids of similar size and shape, especially if the dough is kneaded to full gluten development, the voids and alveoles of the crumb leavened naturally can have many different shapes and sizes.

And, similarly, at Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2329.msg20367/topicseen.html#msg20367:

Another approach to achieving increased chewiness that is rarely mentioned but provides a nice degree of chewiness in my opinion is to use a preferment as the leavening agent for the dough. Doing this produces a sourdough type of crumb that has a high degree of stretchiness and elasticity at the same time. You can tug and pull the crust and see the strands of the crumb stretch but not break. They just spring back when you release the crust. These qualities inherently contribute to the chewiness of the crust. A nice side benefit of such a crust is that the chewiness remains in any leftover slices (if you have any). That is because a sourdough-based crust has better keeping qualities than most crusts made with commercial yeast with a dramatically lowered staling rate.

In any event, you did a great job with the pizzas.

Peter

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2012, 01:57:17 PM »
Thank you John!  I will try that next time side by side with the SD pie.  I used Ischia for this batch. 

Thanks Peter for the links! 

Marlon

Offline norma427

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2012, 04:16:10 PM »
Marlon,

All of your pies look great!  :chef:

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2012, 04:25:46 PM »
Marlon,

All of your pies look great!  :chef:

Norma

Thank you Norma!  I appreciate it. 

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2012, 05:32:37 PM »
Quote
I realized with this exercise that I have not spent enough time learning the benefits of cold fermentation (especially during summertime) and next time will be much better.

Personally, I see only one benefit of cold (read: refrigerated) fermentation and that is timing - i.e. slowing things down so that the dough is ready more than several days out. Other than retarding fermentation for timing purposes, I see no reason for cold fermentation.

If flavor is the goal, cool (~65F) RT fermentation is a better option, IMHO.

CL
Pizza is not bread.

Online Tscarborough

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2012, 05:47:10 PM »
I only have a RT of 65 degrees for about a week in November...

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2012, 06:05:22 PM »
You don't need a whole house full of 65F RT - just a couple ft^3.

Last time I checked, you and I are in the same boat.  ;)

Pizza is not bread.


Online Tscarborough

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2012, 07:04:43 PM »
Yeah, but you get the extra humidity....

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2012, 10:52:00 PM »
Yeah, but you get the extra humidity....

Humidity sumidity... of all the people who I would think would know that humidity doensn't matter...

Pizza is not bread.

Online Tscarborough

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2012, 10:55:30 PM »
On the scale of humidity, New Orleans, Houston, Austin, In NO you get used to the constant drip of sweat at the end of your nose, in Houston you simply sweat, in Austin you dry bake.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2012, 10:57:57 PM »
Humidity is an excuse.
Pizza is not bread.

Online Tscarborough

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2012, 11:10:50 PM »
At least it is not a disease.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Wild vs Cake Yeast
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2012, 08:43:36 AM »
Kind of feels like one sometimes...
Pizza is not bread.


 

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