Author Topic: Using SEVEN UP in your dough - the secret to "pizzeria tasting" baked dough ?  (Read 3871 times)

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Offline canadianbacon

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Hi guys,

Yesterday I was doing some searching with Google on French pizza sites, and confirmed what I had known for years.  Privately owned pizza joints in Montreal Canada use SEVEN UP or Sprite in their dough.  From what I read, this adds a lot to the dough, in terms of getting it to very rapidly rise in the oven, I guess in effect a little bit of a booster of sorts.

As for the sauce, cinnamon is a secret ingredient that is used in the sauce.  Just enough to give it a certain taste, but not enough where a client would
know it's cinnamon in the sauce.

Now, I've been making pizza for a good 15 years.  I've baked my dough in different ovens, and have varied my recipe and it always basically tastes the same.

What the heck do these guys in pizza joints do to make their pizza dough totally different than what I do at home ?

It's NOT the oven, I'm sure.  I'm positive if I took home a ball of dough from my local pizza joint, and baked it, it would taste just like the pizza they
did at their store.

So let's eliminate the oven.

Then there is the flour..... well, I read some posts many months ago, and went to my local Bulk Barn and bought several different flours,
and guess what - all were a disappointment... I really did not find any real taste difference.  I just have never ever been able to replicae the
taste of a real pizza parlour dough.

How do these guys do it ? is it something magical ? ... is there some ingredient they add that we don't at home ?

Do they use lard instead of veg. oil ?
do they add butter ?

I am at a loss. I have friends who come over and say my pizza is super, but some of them agree it doesn't have that "pizzaria taste"

Well, what the heck is it ? .... oh and it's not the way they mix the dough, I tried several of the ways that friends here have suggested and that
just ain't it.  I with I could see if the pizza you taste in the States is like we have here in Canada.... I'm pretty darn sure, the local privately own pizzera in NY or other cities is pretty much the same in taste as it is here.

I just refuse to believe that the dough they make in a pizzera is just :

- flour
- water
- yeast
- salt
- sugar
- oil.

I just can't believe it, because this is what I use, and I never have made a pizza that tastes exactly like a pizzera.

Ah geez..... I just with there was somebody here that actually worked in a pizzera. Now that would be awesome !

Mark
Pizzamaker, Rib Smoker, HomeBrewer, there's not enough time for a real job.


Online scott r

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Are you sure the oven does not factor in?  I recently was talking to a pizza fanatic (not maker) who was insisting that a local favorite place of ours had just dropped in flavor.  The thing that really surprised me was that he claimed that all of a sudden his last five pies (on different visits) totally tasted different.  Usually you get a bad pie now and then if a new chef comes in or something, but they still get lucky with a good one now and then.  Well it turns out he was totally tasting the difference in a new oven! I just found out that the pizzeria "upgraded" to new ovens right when the pies changed.  Supposedly they are still cooking at 550.  Maybe the old ovens were actually firing at different temp because they were out of calibration, or they just had a better flavor from being seasoned for years.  Lets also realize how important air circulation, and the differences of top, bottom, and side temperatures can effect a pie.

Offline foster444

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As I posted recently on a worst pizzas thread, the worst pizzeria pizza I ever had was in Toronto.  I can say authoratatively that Toronto pizza, based on the sample I had, is not even close to NY pizza.  How different can Canadian pizza be from New York's?    World's apart.

No offense, mind you.  I love Canada and I thank you often for hockey, Joni Mitchell, and Neil Young.

Bob

Offline chiguy

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 Hi, CanadianBacon
 I think you are beating yourself up for no reason. If you have been making pizza for 15 
 years, myself and other members would gladly pay for one of your pizza's, especially with all your experience. Pizza is just sauce,dough and cheese and these items are prepared in all different ways. I have ate at many pizza places in Chicago and none ever seem to be exactly the same. If your friends say your pizza does not taste like pizzeria pizza,Good!! It should'nt, no 2 places are alike, you are making a pizza unique to your taste.
                       ;D Cheer up Dude ;D    Chiguy

Offline Danes Dad

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CanadianBacon

Don't discount the oven or more specifically the temp of the oven.  In my minimal experience (nothing close to 15 years) I have drastically improved my pizza.  My first couple of pizzas were cooked on solid pizza pans at a low temp (425).
I made two changes.  I raised the temperature to 495 and started using a mesh screen to cook the pizza.  These two changes made a world of difference. 

Danes Dad

Offline dkipta

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A pizza baked in a 500+ oven will taste different than that of 450.  Once I started using a pizza stone, the quality of my pies increased.  And after I lined my oven with quary tile, the taste of my pies went to gourmet quality.  I measured the temperature of my oven with an infrared temp gun and found my stone and tiles where actually more close to 600 degrees compared to the steel wallls of my oven even though the oven was set at 500.

The stone and tiles are actually being superheated and will maintain that temperature even though the oven air temp is lower!

Offline Primavera

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Hi Canadianbacon,

I've heard of people using Coke and fizzy water in their recipies too.

But I wanted to say that the quality of the tap water you're using will also have an effect. Maybe you're on the same supply as the pizzeria, but if you live ruraly for example, the water may be different. If so, try using bottled mineral water instead (ordinary still water).

Also, the oven does make a huge difference. Household ovens are never going to produce the pizza oven results. The stone floor has a lot to do with it and the heat is distributed evenly. The base of the pizza is in direct contact with the heat of the oven floor.

What would be good, would be to make your dough at home and take one dough- ball to the pizzeria, and ask the chef to cook it, using your toppings. I bet it would be better than in your home.

You can, if you can find it, add a couple of teaspoons of malt flour to your mix(per every kilo of flour) at the beginning, along with the flour. This will make a nice colour and also add a bit of flavour.

Julian.
I will never get bored of pizza. I think I'll have one tonight.

Offline Henrik

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A pizza baked in a 500+ oven will taste different than that of 450.  Once I started using a pizza stone, the quality of my pies increased.  And after I lined my oven with quary tile, the taste of my pies went to gourmet quality.  I measured the temperature of my oven with an infrared temp gun and found my stone and tiles where actually more close to 600 degrees compared to the steel wallls of my oven even though the oven was set at 500.

The stone and tiles are actually being superheated and will maintain that temperature even though the oven air temp is lower!

Hi,
I fully agree that oven temperature is very important, but just want to remind of the importance of emissivity for surfaces, as you here compare IR readings from different surfaces.
If you do not take this into consideration, your readings are not true.



There is an excellent explanation here: http://www.omega.com/prodinfo/infraredthermometer.html


So, perhaps your stones are not superheated, but have a higher emissivity. They certainly improve the thermal mass in your oven, hence keep the temperature better when a cold pie  enters....

Best rgds

Henrik

Offline Manalishi

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I've heard of people using Coke and fizzy water in their recipes too.

It works.  I use sprite in my biscuits, along with sour cream.  If anyone here knows of Popeye's biscuits, they would truly appreciate how it turns out.
There is a fine line between ignorance and stupidity; which side are you on?


 

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