Food/Labor percentages

[TXCraig1]

If you don't love making pizza, don't sell it. It will not be profitable for you.

Unless you have a great bar business...

[scott123]

Aren't zero marketing and bad marketing two different things?

Peter

Peter, I wasn't equating zero and bad marketing, I was just pointing out that 'world class pizza' requires no marketing- good, bad or otherwise.

[Pete-zza]

From a successful PMQTT member: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=72420#p72420.

Peter

[ammonation]

I'm not going to flame you for thinking about frozen dough, but I will flame you for thinking about selling pizza without any pizzamaking experience.

From reading your posts, it seems like food is more of a business to you then it is a passion. This kind of soullessness may work for Dominos and Pizza Hut, who have R&D departments developing product for them, but, for an individual considering selling pizza, it's an poor business model, especially in a NJ state university area where other good pizzerias will reside.

If you don't love making pizza, don't sell it. It will not be profitable for you.

Business isn't dependent on selling pizza. I clearly wrote it would be a part of the menu. In fact, my other store sells deep fried fish as well. I hate fish, absolutely do not eat it. Yet, it accounts for 25% of sales. I think you are well, well, well off base claiming if I don't love it, don't sell it, it won't be profitable. From reading your post, you judgement on why I want to sell pizza is wrong. Thanks for your time.

[scott123]

Business isn't dependent on selling pizza. I clearly wrote it would be a part of the menu. In fact, my other store sells deep fries fish as well. I hate fish, absolutely do not eat it. Yet, it accounts for 25% of sales. I think you are well, well, well off base claiming if I don't love it, don't sell it, it won't be profitable. From reading your post, you judgement on why I want to sell pizza is wrong. Thanks for your time.

You're looking to sell pizza to add to your other sales.  If you're not passionate about pizza, the pizza aspect of your business will not be profitable.  In a NJ college town, deep fried fish isn't pizza.  There is most likely very little deep fried fish competition. You might sell a small pie or two to families ordering a variety of foods, but no student will ever specifically come for the pizza when there's someone passionate about making pizza down the road who can make a better slice.

If you're making money with burgers, stick to that.

[ammonation]

You're looking to sell pizza to add to your other sales.  If you're not passionate about pizza, the pizza aspect of your business will not be profitable.  In a NJ college town, deep fried fish isn't pizza.  There is most likely very little deep fried fish competition. You might sell a small pie or two to families ordering a variety of foods, but no student will ever specifically come for the pizza when there's someone passionate about making pizza down the road who can make a better slice.

If you're making money with burgers, stick to that.

Scott...  After reading your posts, I think you are bitter that someone interested in the financial gain for pizza is here. You more or less spelled that out when referencing corporate pizzerias such as Domino's or Pizza Hut. Clearly you are offended of my franchise background and fearful that another person is coming to town with a pizza place that can put yours out of business. My best recommendation to you is to adapt, or die. If you have a problem that a man without any experience or direct roots to Sicily I suggest you to deal with it in your own, quiet manor. 

Also, maybe there is a reason I have picked a certain town to stick a pizza place.. But, your a man of wisdom, you probably thought of that already....

[Bigfoot21075]

I'm not going to flame you for thinking about frozen dough, but I will flame you for thinking about selling pizza without any pizzamaking experience.

From reading your posts, it seems like food is more of a business to you then it is a passion. This kind of soullessness may work for Dominos and Pizza Hut, who have R&D departments developing product for them, but, for an individual considering selling pizza, it's an poor business model, especially in a NJ state university area where other good pizzerias will reside.

If you don't love making pizza, don't sell it. It will not be profitable for you.

This is SO VERY TRUE. Might as well buy a Dominos franchise, it will pay uo better and you will be happier.

The same is true in other food areas like BBQ....

[weemis]

Scott...  After reading your posts, I think you are bitter that someone interested in the financial gain for pizza is here. You more or less spelled that out when referencing corporate pizzerias such as Domino's or Pizza Hut. Clearly you are offended of my franchise background and fearful that another person is coming to town with a pizza place that can put yours out of business. My best recommendation to you is to adapt, or die. If you have a problem that a man without any experience or direct roots to Sicily I suggest you to deal with it in your own, quiet manor.  

Also, maybe there is a reason I have picked a certain town to stick a pizza place.. But, your a man of wisdom, you probably thought of that already....

you've come to a website that is specifically designed to help the pizza passionate come together to share and grow in their passion and understanding for pizza. yes, target can sell art prints all day. but to a painter, they are all that is wrong with art these days. buyers wanting something that matches their couch more than a genuine creation from the soul.

[TXCraig1]

If you're not passionate about pizza, the pizza aspect of your business will not be profitable. 

Scott, I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this as a blanket statement. I think I know where you are coming from, and in that sense I agree with you that if you are going in to market your place as a pizza joint and compete with passionate pizza makers or in a market that expects high quality in a certain type of pizza, then yes, passion is a critical element.

However, when I was working for Hormel (pre-cooked pizza toppings were a big part of the business), I lost count of how many places I helped put into the pizza business using frozen raw dough and more often, parbaked crusts. I’ve seen many icehouse-type places make a mint selling complete garbage pizza. At the time, I didn’t know good pizza and I certainly wasn’t passionate about pizza in any respect other than using it as a tool to make money. I did that by teaching operators who didn’t know anything about pizza how to make money selling pizza with zero skills, nearly zero effort, and certainly no passion (other than for making extra money of course).

Putting your pizza passion and purism on hold for a minute, you have to admit it is an attractive proposition for the right operations. You can make a product that will satisfy the vast majority of people who are not specifically seeking out great pizza and (and nearly 100% of drunks) with absolutely no skilled labor. It requires no prep – the crust is ready to go – all baked and everything – the toppings are fully cooked, the cheese is shredded, and the vegetables are prepped for you before they get to your back door. Just throw everything on the crust and pop it in the oven until the cheese melts. Easy money.

I don’t know ammonation’s specific situation, but I do know that there are plenty of opportunities to make good money selling passionless gutfiller pizza. You have to know your customer and your market situation, but if there is an opportunity to sell pizza, why not? As you know, you can make a lot more money selling a pizza than a burger.

CL

[Chicago Bob]

Craig,

In reference to your last post....what would you consider to be an ideal customer/market scenario for the type of pizza you used to help get pizzaria owners producing? Thank you.

Bob

[scott123]

Scott, I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this as a blanket statement.

Craig, the statement is not of the blanket variety  It's only in the context of the NJ college town market.  New Jersey is very competitive, even in South Jersey, where I believe the OP resides. When you add the university aspect, that drives the competition up even more.

Passionless pizza can be incredibly profitable, just not in that particular market. 

[AimlessRyan]

Passionless pizza can be incredibly profitable, just not in that particular market. 

I thought the same thing about Manhattan two years ago, but now Manhattan is filled with crappy dollar slices and the really good slice joints are almost gone.

[Chicago Bob]

I think the NJ college town market is safe from the Manhatten madness....

[TXCraig1]

Craig,

In reference to your last post....what would you consider to be an ideal customer/market scenario for the type of pizza you used to help get pizzaria owners producing? Thank you.

Bob

My favorite place to go with that formula was C-stores, low-end bars, ice-house like places, etc. It's perfect for customers who come in not expecting quality - because you can give them something that tastes OK - and places where people are drinking because they will lap it up, and the operator does not need any fancy kitchen equipment or trained staff. We put pizza in places with no kitchen and previously sold no hot food. I used to go in with the guy selling the $100 counter-top pizza ovens. I could give the operator enough coupons to almost pay for the oven in some cases.

CL

[AimlessRyan]

I wouldn't even consider trying to sell snack bar-quality pizza in NJ (or anywhere), but I can see how it might sell, especially on a college campus.

[Chicago Bob]

My favorite place to go with that formula was C-stores, low-end bars, ice-house like places, etc. It's perfect for customers who come in not expecting quality - because you can give them something that tastes OK - and places where people are drinking because they will lap it up, and the operator does not need any fancy kitchen equipment or trained staff. We put pizza in places with no kitchen and previously sold no hot food. I used to go in with the guy selling the $100 counter-top pizza ovens. I could give the operator enough coupons to almost pay for the oven in some cases.

CL

Why thank you Craig....you display good game. You sure you not from Chicago?   

[TXCraig1]

Why thank you Craig....you display good game. You sure you not from Chicago?   

I lived there for 6 months when I was working for Hormel.