Gave the Bruno Di Fabio Recipe a Shot...

[Vesuvi0]

First of all..I did not use High Gluten flour so that may be a results game changer, but in all honesty I expected a lot more out of this recipe.  The dialogue in the video pumps a lot of authenticity for true, thin crust, artisan, "neapolitan" style pizza but I just couldn't find it.  I'm not trying to be too much of a cynic or slam on a video that is most likely instructional for folks that are new to pizza making, but when it comes down to claiming that much authenticity my expectations rise accordingly.

Here is the link to the video on youtube that I am sure most of you have seen at some point..

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju3MEV-dQ0A" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju3MEV-dQ0A</a>

Now for my risk of having my foot shoved into my mouth...the recipe conversion.  The video communicates the recipe in lbs, quarts, ounces, and # of eggs.  Since there really is no precise way to convert volume into mass, there is some margin for error here.  Regardless, I expect the variance to be trivial.

I made the conversions by building a simple table in MS Excel where I list the ingredients row by row, then use multiple columns labeled with the different units of measure.  I use the =CONVERT function to boil down each ingredient to a measure of GRAMS, where of course I then back into the baker % of the recipe.  Like I said, this might be where I could have potentially taken a good recipe and wrecked it...

This is what I came up with all said and done....shot for 2, 20oz. dough balls

Flour (100%): Water (50%): CY (.250%): Salt (1.25%): Olive Oil (3.0%): Sugar (1.25%): Eggs, large (1.5%): Total (157.25%): Single Ball:

721.14 g  |  25.44 oz | 1.59 lbs 360.57 g  |  12.72 oz | 0.79 lbs 1.8 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 9.01 g | 0.32 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.88 tsp | 0.63 tbsp 21.63 g | 0.76 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.81 tsp | 1.6 tbsp 9.01 g | 0.32 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.26 tsp | 0.75 tbsp 10.82 g | 0.38 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.14 tsp | 0.71 tbsp 1134 g | 40 oz | 2.5 lbs | TF = N/A 567 g | 20 oz | 1.25 lbs

I followed the mixing instructions to an exact T.  Mixing the initial ingredients by hand, dumping all of the flour in, mixing for 5 minutes then add the rest of the oil, etc...  I have to say, the dough came together in the suggested mixing time rather nicely.  Gave my KA P600 a hell of a workout but nonetheless the final dough was well kneaded and formed into a VERY perfectly smooth dough ball.

Fermentation time was around 30 hours in the fridge as suggested..

Here is what I came up with...

[Vesuvi0]

More pics..

[Vesuvi0]

Final product was a very dry and tasteless crust.  Based on the hydration percent from my conversion I was expecting the former, however the latter I certainly was not. 

I will say that the video is very useful for understanding how to ball dough, store dough, and adjust yeast and water to accommodate for hot summer kitchens, but in all honesty the taste of the crust was far less than I had expected out of a true New York Style recipe.

By any chance at all, has anybody found anything different than I have?

Feedback much appreciated!!!!

[fazzari]

Final product was a very dry and tasteless crust.  Based on the hydration percent from my conversion I was expecting the former, however the latter I certainly was not. 

I will say that the video is very useful for understanding how to ball dough, store dough, and adjust yeast and water to accommodate for hot summer kitchens, but in all honesty the taste of the crust was far less than I had expected out of a true New York Style recipe.

By any chance at all, has anybody found anything different than I have?

Feedback much appreciated!!!!

I tried the recipe some time ago, and also found the crust to be rather bland.....but, after letting the dough sit an extra day, the crust was very good!!!!  Time can add a lot of quality!!

John

[Vesuvi0]

I tried the recipe some time ago, and also found the crust to be rather bland.....but, after letting the dough sit an extra day, the crust was very good!!!!  Time can add a lot of quality!!

John

That's a good point.  I should have baked my second dough ball 2, maybe even 3 days after.  The dough showed absolutely no sign of overproofing at 30 hours so a little patience could have yielded some better results!

[Pete-zza]

Vesuvi0,

Some time ago, I converted the Bruno's recipe to baker's percent format, at Reply 10 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12883.msg125253/topicseen.html#msg125253. Your version is very close. You did a nice job with the conversions. I agree with John (fazzari) that a longer fermentation time should improve matters. With a nominal hydration of only 50% and with an effective hydration of about 54%, the dough will ferment more slowly than a more highly hydrated dough. So, you are unlikely to get enough fermentation byproducts to produce a more flavorful crust.

Peter

[Vesuvi0]

Pete - 17330 posts and you remember 1 from over well over a year ago....elephant's brain you have 

Both you and John have got to have it right on.  While this was one of the most flavorless crusts I have made, it was also by far the dryest.  30 hour ferment is right smack dab in my wheelhouse for a 58-60% dough.  I did bake within the "24-36 hour" mark as per the video suggestion, however Bruno does elude to the fact that his proofing temperature control isn't always constant.  Some of the restaurants have coolers and some don't but maybe even with a cooler in a commercial environment he still is dealing with higher than normal temperatures than that of a household fridge.  Another thought is that he might have a longer room temp proof time prior to baking.  Whatever the case might be, something about his proofing environment is producing a much better dough than I did within the same time frame.

Stay tuned for round 2...will shoot for a 48-72 hour proof time

[Pizza De Puta]

More pics..

I was intrigued with the video and was wondering what effects egg has on the pizza dough equation but that crust looks as hard and tough as leather.  Was it lighter and more delicate than it appears in the photo?  That pie looks like it could stop a bullet.

[scott123]

RE, I'm in no way defending the use of eggs in pizza crust, but it's impossible to judge any crust recipe without the context of bake time.

[Pete-zza]

I was intrigued with the video and was wondering what effects egg has on the pizza dough equation but that crust looks as hard and tough as leather.  Was it lighter and more delicate than it appears in the photo?  That pie looks like it could stop a bullet.

RE,

If you want to read about the effects of eggs on a baked item, you might take a look at the article on emulsifiers at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8395.msg72522/topicseen.html#msg72522 and also Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14326.msg181052.html#msg181052 and Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16640.msg162277/topicseen.html#msg162277.

With only about 1.5% eggs in the Bruno's dough, I am hard pressed to see that there would be much effect on the dough and finished crust. As noted in the abovereferenced linked sources, eggs are about 76% water and contain a small amount of fat so maybe there is a slight effect on the plasticity of the dough. The only way to really determine what effect the eggs have on Bruno's dough and finished crust would be to make side-by-side doughs that are the same but with one of the doughs not having any eggs.

Peter

[Pizza De Puta]

What's the final verdict, Pete.  How did this recipe taste?  Will it give Lehman a run for its money or is the vibe I'm sensing, "move on people, there's nothing to see here?"  From a practical standpoint, the use of raw eggs in fermenting dough seems a little scary to me, but I'm admittedly a rookie in the kitchen.

[Pete-zza]

What's the final verdict, Pete.  How did this recipe taste?

RE,

I never tried the recipe myself. On paper, after converting the recipe to baker's percent format, it didn't look all that appealing to me, and I wasn't convinced that it was really a NY style because of the eggs. Also, the hydration seemed low for a NY style. But, far be it for me to tell an Italian guy with the name of Bruno that he can't call his pizza a NY style pizza .

Peter

[Vesuvi0]

I was intrigued with the video and was wondering what effects egg has on the pizza dough equation but that crust looks as hard and tough as leather.  Was it lighter and more delicate than it appears in the photo?  That pie looks like it could stop a bullet.

The pics most definitely give that vibe, however, the pie wasn't hard on the outside but it rip very easy.  Kind of hard to describe, but more often then not my standard crust recipe will resist ripping and be much more elastic.  This crust tore very easily.

Regardless, the texture wasn't pleasant.

[Vesuvi0]

With only about 1.5% eggs in the Bruno's dough, I am hard pressed to see that there would be much effect on the dough and finished crust. As noted in the abovereferenced linked sources, eggs are about 76% water and contain a small amount of fat so maybe there is a slight effect on the plasticity of the dough. The only way to really determine what effect the eggs have on Bruno's dough and finished crust would be to make side-by-side doughs that are the same but with one of the doughs not having any eggs.

Peter

I agree on both points.  First, the egg content is very small.  This makes me scratch my head due to the fact that Bruno cites the ingredient as "essential".  Secondly, a side by side would be a great exercise to see what exactly might change.

[Vesuvi0]

RE,

I never tried the recipe myself. On paper, after converting the recipe to baker's percent format, it didn't look all that appealing to me, and I wasn't convinced that it was really a NY style because of the eggs. Also, the hydration seemed low for a NY style. But, far be it for me to tell an Italian guy with the name of Bruno that he can't call his pizza a NY style pizza .

Peter

Pete you aren't missing much...I will give it another go but go ahead and save your baking supplies!!

I think you would agree with my criticism on the reference to "thin crust neapolitan style pizza" in the video as well right??

[Pete-zza]

I think you would agree with my criticism on the reference to "thin crust neapolitan style pizza" in the video as well right??

Vesuvi0,

Yes, I would agree with your criticism.

Peter

[pythonic]

Gave this recipe a try tonight and used same formulation as OP.  First off this dough was much dryer than I am used to.  For flour I used 60% All Trumps and 40% KAAP.    I kneaded in mixer for roughly 8mins (hopefully not too long for the AT flour).  After 36 hours in the fridge I saw almost zero fermentation but I gave it a shot anyways.  I got very little oven spring and the pizza had a different kind of crunch to it which I kind of liked.  The dough was dense though and had a little chew.  I noticed Bruno used fresh yeast when he made it and I'm sure his cold proof temps are higher than our fridges because his dough was definitely fermented on the bottom when it was shown.  I have another dough ball in the fridge and will use it within the next 24-48hrs too see what the differences are.

Nate

[Jackie Tran]

I can't say much for Bruno's recipe since ive never tried it but don't discount the use of eggs in pizza crust.  To do a side by side comparison, take your favorite NY recipe and add egg.  You will have to adjust the hydration down to accomodate for the moisture in the eggs.  Ive done many side by side comparisons, witha preference for the crust with egg.  The yolk add fats and coloration to the crust, while the white adds a nice crunchiness to the crust.  I can say that Im happy with my crust and it has about 10% egg in it.  If Im baking in a wfo, I tend to just use egg white and not the yolk.

Chau