Author Topic: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven  (Read 9608 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2012, 01:16:59 PM »
I have couple of options to reduce MPO 1st released version cost:

- Make the chimney as an option to add later but retain the capability of controlling hot air flow.
- Eliminate front opening, the reason i have it now, is to allow rotating the bottom pizza stone which is not really necessary with MPO.
- Postponed the use of pizza turning device to another version of MPO
- Eliminate thermometer... it does not reflect actual oven temperature anyway.
- Use thin top stone

These changes will make the design simpler and more cost effective without compromising on material, quality and performance.  It will take some time to figure out cost reduction impact.

I agree it does not need the chimney. I think I would put a adjustale vent up there instead - kind of like you see on the top of a webber kettle grill maybe? Or, prehaps  one that slided open and closed.

I would eliminate the front opening. I tried to use it on the first pie. It was hard to open with a glove on my hand. It's much easier just to lift it up a little and peek in.

I agree to postpone the turning device.

I'd be curious to know what target customers think of the thermometer. Not the people here. They might like it just for some visual feedback. If it doesn't add too much cost, I'd  do a little more research before discarding it.

I would want to experiment with less mass on top before going to a thinner stone. I think having that thermal mass up there may be important given the necessary lifting and turning.

CL
Pizza is not bread.


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2012, 01:19:59 PM »
I completely agree that Craig's pies look awesome from this test drive. From his description of his technique he rotated the pie at least 4 times after launch. To truly test the MPO I think it needs to be compared to a control given that Craig's skill may over represent the benefits of the MPO over a simple grill setup.  I don't want to make too much work for Craig. And I know in the past he has done grill setups. But if he would indulge us,  I would love to see him use the same grill, bottom stone, dough, and technique with a simple mod like the one I have pictured below as a case control. It only cost about $15 plus the stone, you probably could use a couple firebrick on the top instead of a broken old stone. It uses nothing fancy, no infrared broilers, just a stone on the grill and a full size sheet pan supported by two half firebrick with a vent cut in the middle of the pan with a hole saw. On my grill I did have to trim the pan a little to make it fit so that the lid completely closed during cooking. I would love to see how Craig's pies on a simple setup like that compare to the MPO.  I also have a pic of one of my pies below from this simple mod, stone was about 600F and bake was about 4 min,  but I think Craig can do a lot better.

What does the hole in the middle do? Did you try it without the hole as well?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Michael130207

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2012, 01:37:19 PM »
I honestly can't remember if I tried it without the hole, it only took a couple minutes to drill, I could just cover it with the stone to see the difference. I suspect at grill temperatures that much of the cooking of the top of the pizza is from convection rather than radiation. I wanted to encourage the hot air to vent over the stone rather than around the edges, hole could probably be bigger. I kind of lost interest in tweaking it once I got decent results for a quick pie or two and had my WFO running for more serious bakes.  I believe I got slightly better results when I raised the bottom stone to within 3 inches of the top pan by placing a metal pizza pan under it but I couldn't find any pictures and wanted to keep the control as simple as possible.
Michael

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2012, 07:10:59 PM »
I'd be curious to know what target customers think of the thermometer. Not the people here. They might like it just for some visual feedback. If it doesn't add too much cost, I'd  do a little more research before discarding it.

It has not been predictable, on my oven never went over 600, even when stone temperature were over 700 deg. It will more confusion...

I would want to experiment with less mass on top before going to a thinner stone. I think having that thermal mass up there may be important given the necessary lifting and turning.

I can go either way, the slots are designed to handle stone thickness up to 5/8", thicker stones can be offered as an upgrade. Opening the chimney more will compensate radiation heat from top stone...


From his description of his technique he rotated the pie at least 4 times after launch. To truly test the MPO I think it needs to be compared to a control given that Craig's skill may over represent the benefits of the MPO over a simple grill setup.  I don't want to make too much work for Craig. And I know in the past he has done grill setups. But if he would indulge us,  I would love to see him use the same grill, bottom stone, dough, and technique with a simple mod like the one I have pictured below as a case control.  It only cost about $15 plus the stone, you probably could use a couple firebrick on the top instead of a broken old stone. It uses nothing fancy, no infrared broilers, just a stone on the grill and a full size sheet pan supported by two half firebrick with a vent cut in the middle of the pan with a hole saw. On my grill I did have to trim the pan a little to make it fit so that the lid completely closed during cooking. I would love to see how Craig's pies on a simple setup like that compare to the MPO.  I also have a pic of one of my pies below from this simple mod, stone was about 600F and bake was about 4 min,  but I think Craig can do a lot better.

I will be more than happy to supply Craig with all the fire bricks and steel plates from my previous experiments. You will have more issues with heating time, you still have to turn the pizza couple of time based on your photo.
Bert,

Offline Michael130207

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2012, 08:45:10 PM »
I will be more than happy to supply Craig with all the fire bricks and steel plates from my previous experiments. You will have more issues with heating time, you still have to turn the pizza couple of time based on your photo.

I agree with you it will have to be turned. In fact, I would like to see it turned the same number of times as the one in the MPO. I don't think the heating time will necessarily be greater though. With the lower mass of a setup like this it heats fairly quickly. I think it took about 30 min to get to 600F, but I am not sure, didn't time it exactly.  The MPO is likely superior, but given Craig's skill level, to judge its utility I think it is important to compare it to a simple cheap alternative.
Michael

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2012, 09:44:27 PM »
The turning was just based on feel. I basically ran the MPO the same way I ran my BBQ mod.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2012, 10:13:18 PM »
to judge its utility I think it is important to compare it to a simple cheap alternative.
Why is this important?
Michael has a great performing inexpensive diy set-up and with all due respect high end grill owners looking for a showy insert (MPO) don't want ugly. His pizza pic already shows that it's comparable...
Are you using the word "utility", as in "usefulness" ?
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2012, 10:38:32 PM »
Why is this important?
Michael has a great performing inexpensive diy set-up and with all due respect high end grill owners looking for a showy insert (MPO) don't want ugly. His pizza pic already shows that it's comparable...
Are you using the word "utility", as in "usefulness" ?

I tend to agree with this assessment.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Michael130207

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2012, 11:35:58 PM »
If this was just a demonstration or an assessment of aesthetics then I would agree that a comparison is unnecessary. But this thread is presented as a sort of independent test of a product that is intended to be patented and sold to consumers.

 I meant utility in an economic sense. Does its improved performance justify its increased price (I know a price has not been established yet) over an alternative. As such,  it seems reasonable to compare its performance to an alternative. I don't think the pie I presented is nearly as good as Craig's. 

I only offered my suggestion because I thought critical feedback was being sought on the evaluation of a new product and I was interested to see the results.  I certainly agree it is beautiful and makes great pies. I am sorry if I intruded or offended. :-[
Michael

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2012, 07:41:56 AM »
Does its improved performance justify its increased price (I know a price has not been established yet) over an alternative. As such,  it seems reasonable to compare its performance to an alternative.

There are lots of ways to build a DIY pizza oven, many will probably match and exceed MPO performance. But are they practical?

I used a pizza stone in my home oven for years, like everyone else here, I wanted to bring my pizza experience to next level but I didn't want a WFO for many reason other than the cost. I had firebricks lined in my home oven first, it improved my pizza, but it was not practical and became nuisance over time ... Than I placed firebricks on my grill, better results, again was not practical. This when I started looking for ways to build a portable, easy to carry pizza oven insert from off he shelf items. My options were limited till I came up with the idea of lifting the oven to insert and removing the pizza.

I posted a simple sketch as feedback on another thread on how DIY MPO. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20192.0.html I could start thread for DIY MPO, with more step by step instruction if there is such interest.

Every thing is simple after it has been bone.

MPO will not appeal to everyone, but MPO is everything I wanted in a pizza oven insert and I want to bring it to individuals like me and hopefully make a business out of it.

Craig and the other guys have confirmed that MPO can bake a good quality pizza and is not just pretty useless design and it is not just my imagination.

If any comparison to be made it should to a similar insert that is available in the market. Even, that may not be beneficial, one product may appeal to some and may not appeal to others. What is good for me is not good for everyone. Options are nice to have.

Pricing is my main challenge now... it will determine the size of my potential market and potential MPO success as a business.
Bert,


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2012, 11:34:02 AM »

 I meant utility in an economic sense. Does its improved performance justify its increased price (I know a price has not been established yet) over an alternative.

 I am sorry if I intruded or offended. :-[
Your thoughts are always welcome, Michael, anywhere on this forum.

The increased price is obviously due to materials cost.
I believe Bert's target market want's an aesthetically pleasing unit...and he now has picture proof that it can perform well. This is out of the DIY realm, this unit, and it's customers will appreciate that.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2012, 12:17:24 PM »
If this was just a demonstration or an assessment of aesthetics then I would agree that a comparison is unnecessary. But this thread is presented as a sort of independent test of a product that is intended to be patented and sold to consumers.

 I meant utility in an economic sense. Does its improved performance justify its increased price (I know a price has not been established yet) over an alternative. As such,  it seems reasonable to compare its performance to an alternative. I don't think the pie I presented is nearly as good as Craig's. 

I only offered my suggestion because I thought critical feedback was being sought on the evaluation of a new product and I was interested to see the results.  I certainly agree it is beautiful and makes great pies. I am sorry if I intruded or offended. :-[

Good grief - no offense at all - I'm sorry if I gave that impression. Please don't shy away from constructive suggestions.

Let me explain my thinking. The goal was not to benchmark the MPO vs. less expensive mods/options. The target market as it stands today (as I understand it) is not people who will mod their grill but rather people who will spend real money on a grill like like toys to go with it. I don't know anything about the size of that market nor whether this is a good plan or not. My involvement was simply to put the MPO through it's paces, see how it performed, and give feedback. 

Given that my experience is probably a little more than the typical customer for this product, I think Bert should find some people closer to his target customer to test the grill now that he is confident in the ability of the grill to produce a good pizza. Through this process, he will be able to develop a dough formula and workflow that will a) verify if it is a viable product, and b)engineer a production model, and c) help his customers realize success.

I think your question as to the performance vs. a simple, inexpensive mod is an interesting one, but it is much more relevent to this forum than to the development and marketing of the MPO (IMHO). I did the test of the MPO as a favor because I think Bert has one of the most interesting grill solutions I've seen, and I'd like to see him be successful. My free time is not as limited as my wife's patience for pizza, but we all know which is the real gating factor. With that in mind, and recognizing that my passion lies only with NP from a WFO, I don't know if I will get to testing a grill mod such as yours. I won't rule it out as I do think it is an interesting question, but I can't promise I'll do it anytime soon.

CL

Pizza is not bread.

Offline Michael130207

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2012, 03:15:49 PM »
Thanks for the kind reassurance, you guys are truly gentleman.
Michael

Offline SinoChef

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2012, 06:23:34 PM »


And thee honor for best opening of a thread goes to....


Quote
I started by opening a bottle of Greenock Creek Cabernet 2001.

 ;D

Quote
I think Bert has one of the most interesting grill solutions I've seen, and I'd like to see him be successful.


I truly apologize, But mom, relatives, friends, are not go to get down with an LBE. They have jobs,lives, and other hobby's. They eat to live.Not tinker with temps.

 This is why I love this product.

Pate is just some cold meatloaf for some people.

TXcraig is a master, an aficionado. Is that your market? You have seen the garage?  He is not buying one.

Yes, let him rip it out to the edges.

But what about my mom? My cousin, my friends? I just bought a 400$ contraption  For my grill? 20 bucks I  can order local pizza.






Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2012, 07:00:23 PM »

And thee honor for best opening of a thread goes to....


 ;D


I truly apologize, But mom, relatives, friends, are not go to get down with an LBE. They have jobs,lives, and other hobby's. They eat to live.Not tinker with temps.

 This is why I love this product.

Pate is just some cold meatloaf for some people.

TXcraig is a master, an aficionado. Is that your market? You have seen the garage?  He is not buying one.

Yes, let him rip it out to the edges.

But what about my mom? My cousin, my friends? I just bought a 400$ contraption  For my grill? 20 bucks I  can order local pizza.






Ummmm......I think this is a bit handier than an LBE Sino.... ;D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2012, 07:30:20 AM »
I truly apologize, But mom, relatives, friends, are not go to get down with an LBE. They have jobs,lives, and other hobby's. They eat to live.Not tinker with temps.

Jason, majority of my family same thing too... but that does not mean everyone else is the same. I love to tinker… My tinkering got me here…


TXcraig is a master, an aficionado. Is that your market? You have seen the garage?  He is not buying one.


Yes, indeed he is. Yes, I saw his WFO, before that, I saw his hundreds of post on this forum. Best thing about Craig his constructive comments to anything.

No, Craig is not my target market, and probably 99% of this forum members.

Yes, let him rip it out to the edges. ?????

Easy...You really need vacation... :D :D


But what about my mom? My cousin, my friends? I just bought a 400$ contraption For my grill? 20 bucks I  can order local pizza.

This true even for a $20 contraption... It is not for every one... My goal, is too pick a price that guarantee MPO success. Whatever price I pick, it will not affordable for everyone…. I wish it possible…
Bert,

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2012, 03:09:10 PM »
I tried the MPO again for lunch today. This time with a cold fermented ADY formula. I can't even remember the last time I did that. I wanted to try something more along the line of what the typical MPO buyer might use.

KABP  100%
Water 66%
Salt 2.5%
evoo 2%
ADY 0.3%

13" pies. 300g dough balls, so pretty thin -- TF ~0.07 (the first time I used the MPO I made 370g dough balls).

17 hours in the fridge, balled then 4 hours at 77F. The thermometer was up to about 950F. The stone on the first pie was ~670F and about 750F on the last two. The bake times were about 4.5min.

These pies were really good. They had a nice crunch and better flavor than I expected. My wife really liked them and suggested I trade the MPO for the Acunto  :o  :'( My response: fat chance of that :-D

I think with a little practice and fine tuning the formula, you could really make a great pie in this thing.

CL
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 07:00:56 PM by TXCraig1 »
Pizza is not bread.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2012, 03:10:38 PM »
More pics
Pizza is not bread.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2012, 03:11:14 PM »
More pics
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My test of the Mighty Pizza Oven
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2012, 03:21:57 PM »
Dang boy, you got some kinda talent....I'll bet you could even find some way to make a Jack's look neo-ish!!

"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"