Author Topic: Dough Recipe for MPO (Read 4328 times)

MightyPizzaOven · « **Reply #40 on:** August 28, 2012, 03:21:34 PM »

The recipe need need to user friendly for no experience to minimum experience pizza makers.

AimlessRyan · « **Reply #41 on:** August 28, 2012, 03:34:38 PM »

Quote from: MightyPizzaOven on August 28, 2012, 03:01:48 PM

With little instruction the recipe can be consistent every time using volume measurment.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here. Like everyone else, I'm just trying to help you.

Here's one thing you need to know: Nothing is ever consistent using volumetric measurements. One level cup does not equal one level cup. Especially with flour, which I've heard is a pretty important pizza dough ingredient. Even if you use the same measuring cup every time you measure, with the same method of measuring, you're not going to end up with the same amount of flour every time.

Also, just about every measuring cup has at least a slightly different capacity than almost every other measuring cup that's labeled the same size. For example, I have four "one cup" measuring cups. I recently weighed a level cup of flour in each of them, using the same measuring technique for each cup. One of them gave me 5.55 oz of flour, while another one gave me 5.03 oz. That's a huge disparity.

So how much is a cup of flour? There is no answer.

Also, when I started making pizza, there's no way I would have had any interest in something like the MPO. Fifteen years later, I'm interested in something like this. I'm interested now because after 15 years of making pizza obsessively, I know what an MPO could do for me. This is not for beginners.

Like other people have suggested, use both weight and volumetric measurements in the owner's manual. But use the owner's manual to educate people that volumetric measurements are useless. Educating people could be an amazing marketing strategy, if you haven't thought about that. (I have a ton more I could say about that.)

MightyPizzaOven · « **Reply #42 on:** August 28, 2012, 04:06:37 PM »

Ryan, I do appreciate your input and everyone else. Even though I have been making pizza for a while, once I joined this forum, I realized how little I know about pizza... I may sound disagreeing, it is more like I don't see the criticality of it, it is due to my experience level in baking. I agree volumetric is not as accurate as weight. But for someone just starting, is it going to make that much Difference? You indicated.. it does...

I think as long as you are using the same set of measuring cups, ingredient should be proportional.

I intend to provide simple instructions with the MPO to get inexperience users to a good start. I will point experience users to different resources online to pursue higher knowledge.

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #43 on:** August 28, 2012, 04:15:13 PM »

If it was me, I would include only weight and volume measurements. I would not include bakers % as that would only serve to confuse 99.999% of his customers and for no good reason. This is a recipe not an advanced pizza making lesson. Anyone who knows what it is will do the math themselves and the data to do it will be right there.

I would list the volumetric measurement first as the vast majority of the customers won't have a scale or use it even if they do. I would be precise with the weight measurement, and I would detail the method used to weigh the flour so that they have the best chance of duplicating the recipe.

CL

AimlessRyan · « **Reply #44 on:** August 28, 2012, 04:25:50 PM »

Quote from: MightyPizzaOven on August 28, 2012, 04:06:37 PM

I think as long as you are using the same set of measuring cups, ingredient should be proportional.

OK, so what if you have a "one cup" measuring cup that holds 5.03 oz of flour, while I have a "one cup" measuring cup that holds 5.55 oz of flour? (Remember, I'm a beginner, and I assume the "one cup" in your instruction manual is the same thing I use when I measure "one cup.")

In this case, every time I make dough, it's gonna end up nothing like your dough. Your dough will be usable, but mine will be a brick. Every time. I'm gonna try doing this about three times before I get frustrated enough to quit trying to make pizza. Then I might spread the word (on the internet, for everyone to see) that the Mighty Pizza Oven is crap and the instructions are crap. I'm gonna tell everyone not to waste a few hundred dollars on it, and people are gonna listen.

Instead, what if your instructions told me what I needed to know, and I ended up making a pizza I didn't think I could make? What if you told me what we tell every new user here at pizzamaking.com?

MightyPizzaOven · « **Reply #45 on:** August 28, 2012, 04:47:14 PM »

Ryan, If the recipe is not working for them using volume measurment, I would recommend for them to invest into a scale...

I am having issue indicating that you can't make good consistent pizza unless you have a scale.

Craig, what you recommneded is simple to include.

AimlessRyan · « **Reply #46 on:** August 28, 2012, 05:33:46 PM »

Quote from: MightyPizzaOven on August 28, 2012, 04:47:14 PM

I am having issue indicating that you can't make good consistent pizza unless you have a scale.

I don't know because I don't waste my time making pizza without a scale. And if I did, I most certainly would not have been able to learn how to make the often-amazing pizzas of various styles that I crank out every day. You simply cannot learn from one pizza to the next if you don't use a scale to measure the ingredients because you don't know what you might have done differently from one batch of dough to the next.

You're probably right, though, because no one can make consistent pizza using inherently (and hopelessly) inconsistent measurements. It may be possible to make consistently good pizza by using inconsistent measurements, but none of the pizzas will be good for the same reasons as the other pizzas. And there's no way to learn from that.

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #47 on:** August 28, 2012, 05:40:06 PM »

Quote from: AimlessRyan on August 28, 2012, 04:25:50 PM

OK, so what if you have a "one cup" measuring cup that holds 5.03 oz of flour, while I have a "one cup" measuring cup that holds 5.55 oz of flour? (Remember, I'm a beginner, and I assume the "one cup" in your instruction manual is the same thing I use when I measure "one cup.")

A cup is a cup. Your cup and my cup are exactly the same volumetrically. The difference in weight comes from how you scoop and measure, do you sift, do you just scoop and level, do tap it on the counter, do you slice into it with a knife, etc. If you tell them how to measure, they will get pretty close. I really don't see what the big deal is if you give them weights in addition to volume and also tell them how to measure flour with a measuring cup.

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #48 on:** August 28, 2012, 05:40:58 PM »

Quote from: MightyPizzaOven on August 28, 2012, 04:47:14 PM

I am having issue indicating that you can't make good consistent pizza unless you have a scale.

I'm not sure if I understand exactly what you are trying to say here Bert. Maybe a translation problem. Would you mind expounding please?

MightyPizzaOven · « **Reply #49 on:** August 28, 2012, 06:19:06 PM »

Quote from: Chicago Bob on August 28, 2012, 05:40:58 PM

I'm not sure if I understand exactly what you are trying to say here Bert. Maybe a translation problem. Would you mind expounding please?

I am having issue agreeing with that you can't make a good consistent pizza unless you have a scale.

I make pizza on weekend only. I have been improving week by week. I guess, once I stop improving or get consistent results I would look into scaling. Both measurment will be available. It will be up to each individual to decide which way to go based on their own preference and experience level.

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #50 on:** August 28, 2012, 06:23:05 PM »

Quote from: MightyPizzaOven on August 28, 2012, 06:19:06 PM

I am having issue agreeing with that you can't make a good consistent pizza unless you have a scale.

You can. None of these pies were made using a scale. I'm not even sure he always uses a measuring cup.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11391.0.html

AimlessRyan · « **Reply #51 on:** August 28, 2012, 06:30:21 PM »

Quote from: TXCraig1 on August 28, 2012, 05:40:06 PM

A cup is a cup. Your cup and my cup are exactly the same volumetrically. The difference in weight comes from how you scoop and measure...

That is true sometimes, but in this case it's not true. Not even close to true. Even if it was true, it wouldn't matter because you can't measure one cup of flour exactly the same way you measured it the previous time or how you'll measure it the next time. It will always be different, no matter how hard you try to do it the same way every time.

I have weighed flour from these different measuring cups over and over, and the weight is consistently different--vastly different--from one cup to another. If you don't believe me, go buy a few different measuring cups and try it yourself.

I'm going weigh water in these cups now, and then I'll return to update you how much different the weight is between one cup and another cup that is "exactly the same volumetrically."

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #52 on:** August 28, 2012, 06:33:02 PM »

You won't need to weigh the water to see if they are the same volumetrically...

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #53 on:** August 28, 2012, 06:40:17 PM »

Quote from: AimlessRyan on August 28, 2012, 06:30:21 PM

That is true sometimes, but in this case it's not true. Not even close to true. Even if it was true, it wouldn't matter because you can't measure one cup of flour exactly the same way you measured it the previous time or how you'll measure it the next time. It will always be different, no matter how hard you try to do it the same way every time.

I have weighed flour from these different measuring cups over and over, and the weight is consistently different--vastly different--from one cup to another. If you don't believe me, go buy a few different measuring cups and try it yourself.

I'm going weigh water in these cups now, and then I'll return to update you how much different the weight is between one cup and another cup that is "exactly the same volumetrically."

Are some of your cups foreign by chance? A metric cup (8.5 fl oz) or an Imperial cup (9.6 fl oz) are larger than a US cup. Any cup you buy here in the US should be 8.0 fluid ounces.

AimlessRyan · « **Reply #54 on:** August 28, 2012, 07:01:38 PM »

OK, I'm done.

Here's what I did: I took a "one cup" measuring cup and set it on my scale. Tared it to 0. Filled with water until it was almost overflowing. Then I filled very slowly until the water overflowed. Once the water finished dripping over the edge of the scale, I tapped the mechanical scale lightly.

I did this again with a different "one cup" measuring cup, and then again with a third "one cup" measuring cup.

The first "one cup" weighed 8.75 oz.
The second "one cup" weighed 8.10 oz.
The third "one cup" weighed 8.63 oz.

Just in case I did something wrong, I did it all over again.

8.75 oz.
8.14 oz.
8.52 oz.

Obviously there was a little bit of error on my part between the first and second scaling of the third measuring cup, but it's still very minor and insignificant. So I'd like to know how all three of these measuring cups are the exact same size but still manage to measure three considerably different amounts of water when filled to capacity.

Jet_deck · « **Reply #55 on:** August 28, 2012, 07:28:51 PM »

I am going to agree with Ryan. This is the "Mighty Pizza Oven', not some sucky pos that they sell at Big Lots or Harbor Freight. MPO should be willing to show its owners that it is the step above the game; recipe wise and cooking wise. It's not going to kill any new guy who's interested in stepping up their game to learn about weight measurements. Maybe that will be on the website where the new owners go to get the low down on the oven. Regardless, it certainly can't hurt to have the weight measurements in the owners manual. I hope the grill is so popular that it needs a forum to support it.

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #56 on:** August 28, 2012, 08:07:24 PM »

Quote from: Chicago Bob on August 28, 2012, 01:49:14 PM

I don't know Bert...Ryan seems to make a pretty good argument that you will be addressing a bit more of a sophisticated crowd.
This could actually possibly turn in your favor. By starting your instruction booklet(or whatever you intend to do)out right from the start with a little tutorial about weight measuring this might help to catch the eye of people who are more serious about outdoor pizza making. If done correctly and you still give a choice then I don't see what it would hurt if you know what I mean.

MightyPizzaOven · « **Reply #57 on:** August 28, 2012, 09:30:35 PM »

Gene, Bob I am not disagreeing with any of you anyone, even majority of what Ryan posted except for...the claim that you can't make consistent quality pizza unless you weigh you ingredient.

I just totally disagree with that claim for now.. I can't imagine in my head how a minor recipe change could totally mess it up... Sorry Ryan, I hear what you are saying... I just have to experience it myself... lets leave at that for now...

My wife started a diet this weekend, I was suppose to diet with her...but I couldn't resist these pies... I have been eating them for lunch for the past three day, two slices left...I guess that will be my breakfast.

Jet_deck · « **Reply #58 on:** August 28, 2012, 09:38:44 PM »

Quote from: MightyPizzaOven on August 28, 2012, 09:30:35 PM

....but I couldn't resist these pies... I have been eating them for lunch for the past three day, two slices left...I guess that will be my breakfast.

There probably is a 12 step program for that. Just wait till you start hiding slices in your shaving kit for a quick snack after the shower.

Jet_deck · « **Reply #59 on:** August 28, 2012, 09:43:46 PM »

Quote from: MightyPizzaOven on August 28, 2012, 09:30:35 PM

...the claim that you can't make consistent quality pizza unless you weigh you ingredient.

We can leave it rest for now, but...
I am seeing a picture of one of your pizzas on the packaging for the MPO, so somebody in BFE is trying to replicate it, EXACTLY. Because it looks so dam good. So without weights they are off here with the flour, off there with the yeast, and a bit off on the water. It's not going to look/ taste like yours. Give them every possible edge into getting it right. Now, I will let it rest.