Author Topic: San Marzano Tomatoes Pizza Sauce Recipe  (Read 34515 times)

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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: San Marzano Tomatoes Pizza Sauce Recipe
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2012, 06:19:40 PM »
Keep misleading people, Craig. It does them a lot of good.
Ryan
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Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.


Online TXCraig1

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Re: San Marzano Tomatoes Pizza Sauce Recipe
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2012, 06:23:11 PM »
Keep misleading people, Craig. It does them a lot of good.

What specifically have I done to mislead anyone? Do I really seem like the type of person who likes to mislead people?

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Online TXCraig1

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Re: San Marzano Tomatoes Pizza Sauce Recipe
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2012, 06:32:32 PM »
But since you asked, I think paying $2.89 for a deceptively mislabeled can of "good" tomatoes is equally as bad as paying $4.49 for "bad" tomatoes. Just don't try to deceive me, regardless of which can you're trying to sell me. Because if you do, it's not gonna pay off for you in the end.

I didn't say anything about "deceptively mislabeled." Changing the question because you can't bring yourself to answer it as posed is deceptive...
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Offline toyman

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Re: San Marzano Tomatoes Pizza Sauce Recipe
« Reply #78 on: October 30, 2012, 06:57:59 PM »
Most home cooks - and by most, I mean the VAST VAST MAJORITY - have never even heard of a SM tomato, so how can they be misled? Of the few who have, what is their excuse for not educating themselves?

You say most don't understand the importance; when it gets down to the nut-cutting, what is the importance of the letters DOP? I've had dozens of cans of DOP SM's that were vastly inferior to other non-DOP tomatoes? Who is misleading who anyway? One might argue that putting DOP on a can (legitimately) and marketing it as as an indicator of superior quality (to help sales...) is what is really misleading here.



You answered your own question, if they never heard of them but expected to get them upon purchase, the purchaser has been misled.  Facts are facts (correct on your comment, but not the premise). We are having a difference of opinion, that's a fact.  But you commenting that your OPINION is fact is wrong.  The DOP label doesn't guarantee quality or your perception of which tomato tastes better only that it meets the Standards to have a DOP label applied.  Professional or consumer knowledge of the product is immaterial.  None of us had any inherent knowledge, we've learned it all.  I'm not one be ignorant to what I've learned.  I think the great benefit to this thread is that others that you've spoke of that have never heard of San marzanos can read this and gain the knowledge of them, whether they are real San marzanos from Italy with DOP label or any old can that prints San Marzano on them.   :-D       

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: San Marzano Tomatoes Pizza Sauce Recipe
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2012, 07:51:08 PM »
If they are labeled, "San Marzano Tomatoes" and that is what that is, how are they misleading?  If I buy a Fiji apple am I being mislead because it wasn't grown in Fiji?

To be clear in case you guys missed it:  San Marzano is a cultivar of tomato, it can be grown anywhere, I have grown them here.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: San Marzano Tomatoes Pizza Sauce Recipe
« Reply #80 on: October 30, 2012, 10:16:05 PM »
You answered your own question, if they never heard of them but expected to get them upon purchase, the purchaser has been misled. 

If they have never heard of San Marzano tomatoes, they did not expect to get DOP San Marzano tomatoes. If the can says San Marzano and that is the variety of tomato in the can, they got exactly what they expected to get. Full stop.

Quote
Facts are facts (correct on your comment, but not the premise). We are having a difference of opinion, that's a fact.  But you commenting that your OPINION is fact is wrong. 

Where did I present my opinion as fact?

You are 100% correct that facts are facts, and that’s the fatal weakness of your argument.

San Marzano is a variety of tomato. It does not matter where it is grown with respect to being a San Marzano. It’s not like a Vidalia onion. That is a fact.

Labeling a San Marzano tomato as a San Marzano tomato is not deceptive. It is what it is. That is a fact.

Quote
The DOP label doesn't guarantee quality or your perception of which tomato tastes better only that it meets the Standards to have a DOP label applied. 

I never said it guarantees quality – rather my point is that it doesn’t.  You guys are so concerned about someone buying one thing when they think that they are getting something else – you can’t see the forest for the trees. My tangent was simply to point out that it can go both ways. What exactly do you think is happening when someone goes in to buy DOP SM’s because they’ve been told they are great and they end up with a crappy can of DOP SM tomatoes? Didn’t they also buy one thing when they thought they were getting something else? The big difference is that they paid more for their mistake.

Quote
Professional or consumer knowledge of the product is immaterial.  None of us had any inherent knowledge, we've learned it all.  I'm not one be ignorant to what I've learned.  I think the great benefit to this thread is that others that you've spoke of that have never heard of San marzanos can read this and gain the knowledge of them, whether they are real San marzanos from Italy with DOP label or any old can that prints San Marzano on them.   :-D       

The DOP label is not germane to the question of misrepresentation. San Marzano tomatoes grown in California are every bit as “real” San Marzano tomatoes as DOP San Marzano tomatoes grown in Italy. This is not opinion. This is fact, and a very simple fact at that.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline toyman

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Re: San Marzano Tomatoes Pizza Sauce Recipe
« Reply #81 on: October 31, 2012, 09:20:39 PM »
OK, I'm sold.  If the can says San Marzano, there's no question it's definitively a San Marzano.  No further discussion necessary. :angel: 

Offline harmdogg

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Re: San Marzano Tomatoes Pizza Sauce Recipe
« Reply #82 on: November 16, 2012, 11:47:46 AM »
I believe I can help out... I'm a noob on this site, but this is something I know a lot about. I figured I'd lend you nice guys a hand since I'm learning so much about dough fermentation :-)

-San Marzano is a REGION--nothing more.
-Same as Champagne is a region where they grow grapes for champagne. Grapes made in a similar fashion NOT in the Champagne province of France is called Sparkling White Wine.
-Same as Tequila is a region. Tequila made from agave NOT near the city of Tequila in Mexico is not technially tequila.

The words, San Marzano, on the can mean JACK SH!T. The only way to tell what you've got is the official stamp on the back of the can. That STAMP costs a lot of money! That's why you pay $5/can for "official" SM tomatoes. However, some bona fide SM Tomato distributors don't get the stamp on theirs because it's stupid.

Some places are BASED and even PACKAGE the tomatoes in Naples even though they didn't grow them there. ("There" meaning on the hillside of Mount Vesuvius). The tomatoes might have been grown in Scandinavia for all we know!

They do that with all sorts of stuff... like olive oil. People go through all the trouble to say it's ITALIAN olive oil. Who cares. Fun fact: actually SPAIN makes the best olive oil, period. Try it some time. I mean "try" as in compare the olive oils STRAIGHT. Sip them.

I digress.. Use whatever tomatoes taste good. SM Tomatoes are nothing more than a plum tomato. They have less seeds and are naturally sweeter which makes them ideal for pizza. You don't have to add sugar or wine to the recipe. If you're using a cheap knock off that TASTES GOOD. Then do that.

NOTE: The ONLY REASON you should specifically use San Marzano tomatoes is if you're trying to stay true to the real Neapolitan pizza as laid out by the Italian Ministry of Agriculture:

- 35 cm in diameter
- 0.3 cm thickness
- 1.5 cm crust thickness
- fresh mozzarella
- San Marzano tomatoes from Mt. Vesuvius
- cooked at 485 degrees celcius in a wood fired oven

Another fun fact: It will be impossible to recreate a real Napoletana pizza because they just use what's FRESH in their area. In fact, most italian cooks, period, use indigenous ingredients.

Most people on this website are looking for "New York" pizza anyways. If you're using pre-shredded or a block of mozzarella, you're way out of your league here. Save your money; just use whatever can of tomatoes you like the taste of, can get CONSISTENTLY (most importantly), and modify the recipe as needed.

Hope this helps!
HarmDogg

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: San Marzano Tomatoes Pizza Sauce Recipe
« Reply #83 on: November 16, 2012, 01:22:58 PM »
-San Marzano is a REGION--nothing more.

Another fun fact: It will be impossible to recreate a real Napoletana pizza because they just use what's FRESH in their area. In fact, most italian cooks, period, use indigenous ingredients.

Thanks for the great post and information. A couple of clarifications: The San Marzano is an heirloom variety of tomato, and is plum in shape; Italians almost never use fresh San Marzano tomatoes for sauces, preferring canned products.

A real Neapolitan pizza can be recreated very easily sourcing all the ingredients (save the yeast) from Naples, including cheese, flour, salt (Sicily) and canned tomatoes. The only true difference is the freshness of the cheese.

John


Offline harmdogg

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Re: San Marzano Tomatoes Pizza Sauce Recipe
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2012, 08:11:42 PM »
Sorry about that. I more or less meant that most Italians with their cooking use indigenous ingredients (even water--obviously). While you can import most of the ingredients, it is still a futile attempt because if the old ladies who invented the pizza lived here, they'd use local here. Like you said... FRESH! You're not going to find a lot if Italian cooks importing many things for that reason. It'd be silly to go to all that trouble. That's like Californians flying in that god awful water from New York :-)

That's right, John. Canned products don't have to be in season. Consistency is the name of the game+ that's why its best to use what's nearby and readily available year round. That way you can tailor it to your recipe without going on a wild goose chase every time you make pizza.

I'm hungry now!


 

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