KABF hydration vs dough formula?

[mkevenson]

In a previous post, Peter enlightened me to the fact that KABF has a rated hydration absorption factor of 62%. In a published Pizza Napoletana formula, using a home oven temp of 550, Peter Reinhart suggests a hydration of 69.1 %. I realize he does not specifically name the KA brand of flour but does reference either AP or BF to be used in the recipe.
My question is the relationship of the company, King Arthur, stated absorption rate of 62% and any recipe that calls for a hydration % higher. Does this mean that the excess fluid over and above the 62% will not be absorbed by the flour and in essence is useless?

Mark

[buceriasdon]

Mark said, "Does this mean that the excess fluid over and above the 62% will not be absorbed by the flour and in essence is useless?"
No, the exact opposite, the dough will be wetter and more sticky, most likely requiring some periodic stretch and folds to make the dough more easily handled and manageable. Or adding more bench flour but that defeats the purpose behind high hydration. One can keep adding water until it is no longer dough, but batter. The more protein a flour contains, the more water it is capable of absorbing. All purpose flour having a lower protein content will feel wetter than a high protein flour with the same hydration ratio.
Don

[atom]

When your water exceeds the absorbtion rate of the flour, the excess water is suspended within the dough instead of being fully absorbed by the gluten, fiber, and starch. What happens is that the dough becomes rather sticky. Is this water useless to the dough? No, high hydration doughs lend to stronger yeast action and that excess water turns to steam in a hot oven helping in 'Oven Spring'. If you look under the New York section of this site you will see I have a dough that is 70% hydration using KABF with extra gluten added to it. The dough is very hard to work with but it will yield good results with a HOT oven and pizza stone.

[buceriasdon]

Maybe I'm not reading this correctly, but my understanding is since is flour is partly insoluble in water the flour is being held in suspension. Once the water can no longer be absorbed the water molecules suspend the parts of flour that did not absorb water. Or no?
Don

When your water exceeds the absorbtion rate of the flour, the excess water is suspended within the dough instead of being fully absorbed by the gluten, fiber, and starch. What happens is that the dough becomes rather sticky. Is this water useless to the dough? No, high hydration doughs lend to stronger yeast action and that excess water turns to steam in a hot oven helping in 'Oven Spring'. If you look under the New York section of this site you will see I have a dough that is 70% hydration using KABF with extra gluten added to it. The dough is very hard to work with but it will yield good results with a HOT oven and pizza stone.

[atom]

don, I think I am understanding what you are trying to convey, but perhaps you are confusing absorption with being dissolved? Put a sponge in a bowl of water and it soaks up the water, and then floats in the bowl. Who is absorbing who? Is the water absorbing the sponge or is the sponge absorbing the water? Its in the eye of the beholder.

However, if you are talking about say... salt being dissolved in water: that is a chemical property of the two. The salt molecules actually break apart and bind to the water molecules, although they both remain seperate substances. Hot water dissolves more salt, but hot water does not ABSORB more flour.

Apologies if this is way off from your point.

[Pete-zza]

Mark,

Maybe the post at Reply 6 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7666.msg65778/topicseen.html#msg65778 will help frame the hydration issue for you. I might add that Peter Reinhart is very fond of high hydration values. I believe that that tendency came out of his breadmaking experience. Professional pizza operators rarely, if ever, use hydration values of around 70%. However, many of our members do so in a home setting. In such cases, one will invariably use stretch and fold and similar methods to get the dough to absorb the substantially increased amount of water. Or they may use very long mix/knead times to do so, as is described in the example of the rustic ciabatta pizza dough referenced in Reply 6 above.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

Mark,

You might also find the post at Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8419.msg72940.html#msg72940 of interest.

Peter

[mkevenson]

Thank you all for your thoughtful explanations. I am beginning to appreciate the interrelationships of all the elements going into the making of a pizza dough,IE. flour, fluid, yeast, salt, baking temp etc. At 1st it seems logical to focus one one element at a time, however the sum of all parts of the recipe and the baking process seem to give a more homogeneous approach.
As a side note, I made a loaf of bread following one of  Reinhart's recipes yesterday and it turned out so good that I figured his pizza recipe must also be good, Ah but "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

Mark

[atom]

mkevenson, if you want a good learning experience make 3 dough balls. Just flour, salt, and water. One at 58%, one at 60%, and one at 62%. Examine the differences and you might be surprised how so little change in water can change your crumb.

[Pete-zza]

mkevenson, if you want a good learning experience make 3 dough balls. Just flour, salt, and water. One at 58%, one at 60%, and one at 62%. Examine the differences and you might be surprised how so little change in water can change your crumb.

atom,

No yeast?

Peter

[AimlessRyan]

mkevenson, if you want a good learning experience make 3 dough balls. Just flour, salt, and water. One at 58%, one at 60%, and one at 62%. Examine the differences and you might be surprised how so little change in water can change your crumb.

What's he supposed to do with the dough balls? Just make them?

[mkevenson]

mkevenson, if you want a good learning experience make 3 dough balls. Just flour, salt, and water. One at 58%, one at 60%, and one at 62%. Examine the differences and you might be surprised how so little change in water can change your crumb.

Adam, good idea. Perhaps Sunday I will do 3 minis.

Mark