Author Topic: 40-sec pie, a revelation  (Read 6299 times)

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Offline bakeshack

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2012, 07:49:35 PM »
That's what I figured. It's just a theory, but I think if you went up to 62% (a la Craig), at 40 seconds, you might start getting a gum line.

Let me put forward another guess.  Gentle stretch, right? No slap technique, correct?

Scott, I use a slap (gentle) technique all the way similar to how Roberto does it.  After pressing with my fingers, the skin gets to about 8-9 inches then slap for about 3-4 times and end up with an 11 inch skin, top, then stretch on the peel to about 13".   I don't bring the dough up to my knuckles anymore.  I used to though.  The dough is very easy to stretch but it has enough strength to withstand the slap technique.   

I haven't made a 62%+ dough in a while.  Maybe it's worth trying next time to see the difference with a sub 50 sec bake.  One thing I really like with this combo is the pie stays really soft even after hours of sitting around. 




Offline RobynB

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2012, 07:57:37 PM »
Wow, those are some breathtaking pizzas, both the Neapolitan and the NYers in that link you just posted - I missed that post in the NY section originally.  Those NY style look just delicious, and I'm not usually into NY-style.  But those Neapolitans are truly beautiful.  Someday I've got to actually time mine - they go so quickly, I don't have time and I never think to ask others.  Yours are so lovely and classically perfect!

Offline bakeshack

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2012, 08:04:23 PM »
Wow, those are some breathtaking pizzas, both the Neapolitan and the NYers in that link you just posted - I missed that post in the NY section originally.  Those NY style look just delicious, and I'm not usually into NY-style.  But those Neapolitans are truly beautiful.  Someday I've got to actually time mine - they go so quickly, I don't have time and I never think to ask others.  Yours are so lovely and classically perfect!

Thank you so much for the kind words, Robyn!  Your pies are works of art too!  II agree it feels like they really go so fast that you can't afford to talk to anybody or do anything while baking.  I can't imagine how the pros can bake 6-8 pies simultaneously.  I would probably go crazy and burn half of them.   :-D

You should give the NY pie a try in your beautiful oven.  It's also worth the time and effort because the WFO adds a little something to the crust texture which is also addicting. 

Marlon

scott123

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2012, 08:50:07 AM »
Scott, I use a slap (gentle) technique all the way similar to how Roberto does it.  After pressing with my fingers, the skin gets to about 8-9 inches then slap for about 3-4 times and end up with an 11 inch skin, top, then stretch on the peel to about 13".   I don't bring the dough up to my knuckles anymore.  I used to though.  The dough is very easy to stretch but it has enough strength to withstand the slap technique.

Marlon, when we had our dinner with Roberto, I asked him about the slap technique, and he said it was something that young guys did to show off and that it was detrimental to the dough. He also posited that slapping could be a contributor to gum lines.  Is it possible that Roberto is doing something similar to the slap technique, but with a pull rather than a slap, and, as such, to avoid confusion, perhaps we should call it something else?

I guess what I'm really saying here, is a 'gentle slap' still a slap?  :)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 09:28:36 AM by scott123 »

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2012, 09:36:47 AM »
Marlon, when we had our dinner with Roberto, I asked him about the slap technique, and he said it was something that young guys did to show off and that it was detrimental to the dough. He also posited that slapping could be a contributor to gum lines.  Is it possible that Roberto is doing something similar to the slap technique, but with a pull rather than a slap, and, as such, to avoid confusion, perhaps we should call it something else?

I guess what I'm really saying here, is a 'gentle slap' still a slap?  :)
If you look at videos of Roberto opening a ball, he seems to use less flour then others who usually put the entire ball in the flour pile and start the slap in the pile then move away to the other end of the counter. Using less flour; he can be more gentle and slow with his slaps compared the others who have to do it faster and relatively harder to "slap" off the flour. Thats what I've observed after watching all the videos of pizza makers in Naples and how Roberto/Don A open their dough balls.

Offline weemis

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2012, 09:49:38 AM »
Marlon! This is the cream of the crop! Another amazing pie maker to aspire to!
keep up the good work.  :chef:
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline bakeshack

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2012, 11:46:22 AM »
Marlon! This is the cream of the crop! Another amazing pie maker to aspire to!
keep up the good work.  :chef:

Thank you very much, weemis!  Those are very kind words from you.

Marlon

Offline bakeshack

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2012, 11:52:09 AM »
Marlon, when we had our dinner with Roberto, I asked him about the slap technique, and he said it was something that young guys did to show off and that it was detrimental to the dough. He also posited that slapping could be a contributor to gum lines.  Is it possible that Roberto is doing something similar to the slap technique, but with a pull rather than a slap, and, as such, to avoid confusion, perhaps we should call it something else?

I guess what I'm really saying here, is a 'gentle slap' still a slap?  :)

Scott, I guess we could call it a tap technique.  ;D

The only time I am comfortable doing the actual slap technique is when I use the dough in its early stage when it is still quite strong but if I catch the dough at the right time up towards the end of its life, I feel the "tap" technique ala Roberto is more appropriate.

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2012, 12:16:06 PM »
Aye carumba.....fantastic looking pizzas!

Quite impressive. --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell


Offline bakeshack

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2012, 12:25:53 PM »
That's what I figured. It's just a theory, but I think if you went up to 62% (a la Craig), at 40 seconds, you might start getting a gum line.

Let me put forward another guess.  Gentle stretch, right? No slap technique, correct?

I've been thinking about the gum lines associated with ultra fast bakes and I guess, for me, the key is to keep the pizza cooking on the floor as long as you can without burning while having a really large fire on top so you can get the crust and the toppings to cook immediately.  Lifting it to get top heat during the 1st stages of baking maybe detrimental and may contribute to gum lines because the bottom gets deprived of a direct contact with a heat source from the floor.  

I noticed with my recent bakes that I don't lift the pie anymore unless it's almost done which is right around 40 secs.  I turn it maybe 3 times, sometimes I don't even lift anymore unless I am looking for more color on top but, in my experience, the spotting around the crust will come out during the 1st 15-20 secs.  I could literally see the blistering within 5-10 secs after launch.  If it doesn't come out by then (within 15-20 secs), it's not going to be as pronounced as I would like it to be, in my own experience (some may have a different experience, maybe depending on the oven and dough).  When I get the spots but they are not pronounced or blistered, for me, that means I didn't get enough top heat during the critical moments of the bake (which is the 1st 20 secs).  

Marlon


Offline bakeshack

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2012, 12:28:28 PM »
Thank you for doing that, Kelly!  I feel honored.

Offline thezaman

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2012, 12:44:45 PM »
 marlon, those are too pretty to eat. has you technique been discussed in this thread ??since i have been lucky enough to work with Roberto.his method is to stretch to about 10 inches and dress the pizzas.his final stretch is done on the peel.this gives a little thicker base allowing the dough to cook better. the ingredients are cooking on a slightly thicker surface not allowing their weight to be concentrated on the hot floor.
 you have really put together beautiful pizza's, from the overall appearance too the crust coloring. :chef:

Offline Jackitup

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2012, 01:20:36 PM »
Some of the best looking pies I've EVER seen. Ever!


BIG DITTO :chef:
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

Offline bakeshack

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2012, 04:50:09 PM »
marlon, those are too pretty to eat. has you technique been discussed in this thread ??since i have been lucky enough to work with Roberto.his method is to stretch to about 10 inches and dress the pizzas.his final stretch is done on the peel.this gives a little thicker base allowing the dough to cook better. the ingredients are cooking on a slightly thicker surface not allowing their weight to be concentrated on the hot floor.
 you have really put together beautiful pizza's, from the overall appearance too the crust coloring. :chef:

BIG DITTO :chef:

Thank you, Larry and Jon! 

Larry, I have not changed my dough which I discussed in this thread - http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19065.msg201348.html#msg201348.  Sometimes I adjust with the length of bulk, etc. depending on my schedule. 

These pies were made at 59-60% HD.  Bulk fermented for about 2.5 hrs, balled then let it rise for at least 24 hrs.  These were baked right at the 28 hr mark.  I based a lot of what I do with the stretching of the skin on the videos I have watched of Roberto.  It allows me to use even the most over fermented dough.  Before, it would just be a big mess but with his technique, I can still get it in the oven. 

Marlon




Offline Jet_deck

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2012, 08:28:26 PM »
I missed this somehow.  That is a great spread of pies Marlon.  I'm hoping to get there someday.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline bakeshack

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2012, 08:34:26 PM »
Thanks, Gene!  With your beautiful oven almost done and with everyone here ready to help (Craig being in your neck of the woods is a huge plus), there is no chance that you will not achieve excellent results!  I'm actually excited to see the first pies from your new oven! 

Marlon

Offline Jeep Pizza

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2012, 09:08:51 PM »
Those are some beutiful pies. What kind and size oven do you have?
Time is money, money is power, power is pizza and pizza is knowledge.


Offline bakeshack

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2012, 09:27:44 PM »
Those are some beutiful pies. What kind and size oven do you have?

Thank you!  It's a 40" homemade oven - all firebricks.

Offline Jeep Pizza

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2012, 09:34:09 PM »
I am in the planning stages for a WFO and i would like to build my own. What is your dome height? I am aiming for 42" Dia and a dome height of about 18". Any tips on design or building would be greatly appreciated.
Time is money, money is power, power is pizza and pizza is knowledge.

Offline bakeshack

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Re: 40-sec pie, a revelation
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2012, 10:10:13 PM »
I am in the planning stages for a WFO and i would like to build my own. What is your dome height? I am aiming for 42" Dia and a dome height of about 18". Any tips on design or building would be greatly appreciated.

My dome height is at around 15".  The oven mouth measures 17.5"x10".  You might want to check out the oven build for Gene - Jetdeck here -   http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20117.msg210944/boardseen.html#new .  This has specs patterned after an actual Neapolitan oven.  If I am going to build my oven now, this is what I would copy. 

Let us know your progress.

Marlon


 

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