40-sec pie, a revelation

[Chaze215]

  After baking some NY-style pies, the floor was around 700F, I just spread the coals on the floor and I just built a large fire on the side. 

Did you bake those NY style pies @700 or was the temp lower than that before spread the coals on the floor? Do you have any pics of the NY pies? I have to agree with the others, those NEOs look awesome! Nice work!

[bakeshack]

Some of the best looking pies I've EVER seen. Ever!

Absolutely stunning! Beautiful pizze.

Thank you very much, Craig and Mike!  Craig, you are looking at some of the best looking pies every week in your own garage!   

[bakeshack]

Marlon, let me guess, you're working at 60% hydration or below, correct?

Scott, that was 60% HD max.  Maybe a little under that since I had some flour leftover that I didn't mix in the dough.

[bakeshack]

Did you bake those NY style pies @700 or was the temp lower than that before spread the coals on the floor? Do you have any pics of the NY pies? I have to agree with the others, those NEOs look awesome! Nice work!

Thanks, Chaze!  The last NY style pies I made were baked at around 700-715F on the floor.  The bottom got a little well done but I liked it.  You can see the NY pie here - http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19065.msg201348.html#msg201348

[scott123]

Scott, that was 60% HD max.  Maybe a little under that since I had some flour leftover that I didn't mix in the dough.

That's what I figured. It's just a theory, but I think if you went up to 62% (a la Craig), at 40 seconds, you might start getting a gum line.

Let me put forward another guess.  Gentle stretch, right? No slap technique, correct?

[bakeshack]

That's what I figured. It's just a theory, but I think if you went up to 62% (a la Craig), at 40 seconds, you might start getting a gum line.

Let me put forward another guess.  Gentle stretch, right? No slap technique, correct?

Scott, I use a slap (gentle) technique all the way similar to how Roberto does it.  After pressing with my fingers, the skin gets to about 8-9 inches then slap for about 3-4 times and end up with an 11 inch skin, top, then stretch on the peel to about 13".   I don't bring the dough up to my knuckles anymore.  I used to though.  The dough is very easy to stretch but it has enough strength to withstand the slap technique.   

I haven't made a 62%+ dough in a while.  Maybe it's worth trying next time to see the difference with a sub 50 sec bake.  One thing I really like with this combo is the pie stays really soft even after hours of sitting around. 

[RobynB]

Wow, those are some breathtaking pizzas, both the Neapolitan and the NYers in that link you just posted - I missed that post in the NY section originally.  Those NY style look just delicious, and I'm not usually into NY-style.  But those Neapolitans are truly beautiful.  Someday I've got to actually time mine - they go so quickly, I don't have time and I never think to ask others.  Yours are so lovely and classically perfect!

[bakeshack]

Wow, those are some breathtaking pizzas, both the Neapolitan and the NYers in that link you just posted - I missed that post in the NY section originally.  Those NY style look just delicious, and I'm not usually into NY-style.  But those Neapolitans are truly beautiful.  Someday I've got to actually time mine - they go so quickly, I don't have time and I never think to ask others.  Yours are so lovely and classically perfect!

Thank you so much for the kind words, Robyn!  Your pies are works of art too!  II agree it feels like they really go so fast that you can't afford to talk to anybody or do anything while baking.  I can't imagine how the pros can bake 6-8 pies simultaneously.  I would probably go crazy and burn half of them.   

You should give the NY pie a try in your beautiful oven.  It's also worth the time and effort because the WFO adds a little something to the crust texture which is also addicting. 

Marlon

[scott123]

Scott, I use a slap (gentle) technique all the way similar to how Roberto does it.  After pressing with my fingers, the skin gets to about 8-9 inches then slap for about 3-4 times and end up with an 11 inch skin, top, then stretch on the peel to about 13".   I don't bring the dough up to my knuckles anymore.  I used to though.  The dough is very easy to stretch but it has enough strength to withstand the slap technique.

Marlon, when we had our dinner with Roberto, I asked him about the slap technique, and he said it was something that young guys did to show off and that it was detrimental to the dough. He also posited that slapping could be a contributor to gum lines.  Is it possible that Roberto is doing something similar to the slap technique, but with a pull rather than a slap, and, as such, to avoid confusion, perhaps we should call it something else?

I guess what I'm really saying here, is a 'gentle slap' still a slap? 

[BrickStoneOven]

Marlon, when we had our dinner with Roberto, I asked him about the slap technique, and he said it was something that young guys did to show off and that it was detrimental to the dough. He also posited that slapping could be a contributor to gum lines.  Is it possible that Roberto is doing something similar to the slap technique, but with a pull rather than a slap, and, as such, to avoid confusion, perhaps we should call it something else?

I guess what I'm really saying here, is a 'gentle slap' still a slap? 

If you look at videos of Roberto opening a ball, he seems to use less flour then others who usually put the entire ball in the flour pile and start the slap in the pile then move away to the other end of the counter. Using less flour; he can be more gentle and slow with his slaps compared the others who have to do it faster and relatively harder to "slap" off the flour. Thats what I've observed after watching all the videos of pizza makers in Naples and how Roberto/Don A open their dough balls.

[weemis]

Marlon! This is the cream of the crop! Another amazing pie maker to aspire to!
keep up the good work. 

[bakeshack]

Marlon! This is the cream of the crop! Another amazing pie maker to aspire to!
keep up the good work. 

Thank you very much, weemis!  Those are very kind words from you.

Marlon

[bakeshack]

Marlon, when we had our dinner with Roberto, I asked him about the slap technique, and he said it was something that young guys did to show off and that it was detrimental to the dough. He also posited that slapping could be a contributor to gum lines.  Is it possible that Roberto is doing something similar to the slap technique, but with a pull rather than a slap, and, as such, to avoid confusion, perhaps we should call it something else?

I guess what I'm really saying here, is a 'gentle slap' still a slap? 

Scott, I guess we could call it a tap technique. 

The only time I am comfortable doing the actual slap technique is when I use the dough in its early stage when it is still quite strong but if I catch the dough at the right time up towards the end of its life, I feel the "tap" technique ala Roberto is more appropriate.

[pizzablogger]

Aye carumba.....fantastic looking pizzas!

Quite impressive. --K

[bakeshack]

That's what I figured. It's just a theory, but I think if you went up to 62% (a la Craig), at 40 seconds, you might start getting a gum line.

Let me put forward another guess.  Gentle stretch, right? No slap technique, correct?

I've been thinking about the gum lines associated with ultra fast bakes and I guess, for me, the key is to keep the pizza cooking on the floor as long as you can without burning while having a really large fire on top so you can get the crust and the toppings to cook immediately.  Lifting it to get top heat during the 1st stages of baking maybe detrimental and may contribute to gum lines because the bottom gets deprived of a direct contact with a heat source from the floor.  

I noticed with my recent bakes that I don't lift the pie anymore unless it's almost done which is right around 40 secs.  I turn it maybe 3 times, sometimes I don't even lift anymore unless I am looking for more color on top but, in my experience, the spotting around the crust will come out during the 1st 15-20 secs.  I could literally see the blistering within 5-10 secs after launch.  If it doesn't come out by then (within 15-20 secs), it's not going to be as pronounced as I would like it to be, in my own experience (some may have a different experience, maybe depending on the oven and dough).  When I get the spots but they are not pronounced or blistered, for me, that means I didn't get enough top heat during the critical moments of the bake (which is the 1st 20 secs).  

Marlon

[bakeshack]

Thank you for doing that, Kelly!  I feel honored.

[thezaman]

 marlon, those are too pretty to eat. has you technique been discussed in this thread ??since i have been lucky enough to work with Roberto.his method is to stretch to about 10 inches and dress the pizzas.his final stretch is done on the peel.this gives a little thicker base allowing the dough to cook better. the ingredients are cooking on a slightly thicker surface not allowing their weight to be concentrated on the hot floor.
 you have really put together beautiful pizza's, from the overall appearance too the crust coloring.

[Jackitup]

Some of the best looking pies I've EVER seen. Ever!

BIG DITTO

[bakeshack]

marlon, those are too pretty to eat. has you technique been discussed in this thread ??since i have been lucky enough to work with Roberto.his method is to stretch to about 10 inches and dress the pizzas.his final stretch is done on the peel.this gives a little thicker base allowing the dough to cook better. the ingredients are cooking on a slightly thicker surface not allowing their weight to be concentrated on the hot floor.
 you have really put together beautiful pizza's, from the overall appearance too the crust coloring.

BIG DITTO

Thank you, Larry and Jon! 

Larry, I have not changed my dough which I discussed in this thread - http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19065.msg201348.html#msg201348.  Sometimes I adjust with the length of bulk, etc. depending on my schedule. 

These pies were made at 59-60% HD.  Bulk fermented for about 2.5 hrs, balled then let it rise for at least 24 hrs.  These were baked right at the 28 hr mark.  I based a lot of what I do with the stretching of the skin on the videos I have watched of Roberto.  It allows me to use even the most over fermented dough.  Before, it would just be a big mess but with his technique, I can still get it in the oven. 

Marlon

[Jet_deck]

I missed this somehow.  That is a great spread of pies Marlon.  I'm hoping to get there someday.