Author Topic: GLUTEN NEVER DEVELOPS  (Read 3432 times)

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Offline clg763

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Re: GLUTEN NEVER DEVELOPS
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2012, 12:26:15 PM »
Tom, I tried a batch of dough with your recommendations, I made a batch of 16 pizzas for my family yesterday using the following guidelines:
270g doughballs - formed 11-12" pies
63% final hydration
3% ischia starter (100% hydration)
2% kosher salt

Using unbleached, AP flour, I mixed the ingredients in a very large bowl and let them sit for 2 hours, I then stirred just to get a little bit more of a consistent dough. There was some gluten development and I was able to get the dough to form a skin (not a smooth one yet). After 5 more hours I checked on the dough again, it now had excellent gluten development, I then separated it into the individual dough balls and placed them in bowls with very light olive oil for their final rise in the fridge. After 4 hours in the fridge, I pulled them out and let them warm up to begin working with. Two hours later, they were at or near room temp and ready for forming. I finally achieved a dough with respectable crumb and workability, the dough stretched out then and didn't break, I certainly had a windowpane. I placed them in my maxed out oven under the broiler and they started baking in about 3-4min. A few things of note though

The pizza split and formed "ears" in the crust on a few of the pies, it looked very interesting, I am not sure why it did this, even though the oven spring was excellent, most pizzas on here have about the same amount and they do not split. Secondly, the center was not baking fast enough, I turned the broiler off to stop the top from browning so fast and even then, I couldn't get any charring on the incredibly thin center. The outside rim would char but the middle would not, we tried varying amounts of toppings but even with very few, I couldn't get the center to show any browning like the rest of the pie.

Overall, the crust was crisp with a soft chewy crumb, my only issue was that the crumb was just a little tighter than I'd like on some of the pies, however, this was a less of a problem than usual, I typically have very dense crumb on the outer crust - which is why I needed help!


Offline pizzaneer

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Re: GLUTEN NEVER DEVELOPS
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2012, 01:34:46 PM »
Join the crowd - all the oven tweaks, grill mods, WFOs you read about here are to get the airy, beautiful crumb you want.

Do some reading about modding your home oven to get higher temps, take some pics- you will find help.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: GLUTEN NEVER DEVELOPS
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2012, 02:48:01 PM »
CLG;
The thin (incredibly thin) center section of your dough skin was the reason why it didn't bake properly or develop the char that you were looking for. It was so thin that the heat was passing right through the dough and being dissipated in the sauce and toppings on top of it. If you leave the center section a little thicker it will not allow the heat to pass on through, hence it will get sufficiently hot to bake properly and develop the char that you are looking for.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline clg763

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Re: GLUTEN NEVER DEVELOPS
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2012, 12:18:11 PM »
*A quick update* I bought a hobart A200 mixer this week and have used it twice now for my dough. There is absolutely no comparison between a commercial mixer and the home kitchenaid. The dough produced by the hobart is a beautiful silky smooth dough that is very easy to work with. Yes it windowpanes, I don't know why windowpaning is a bad thing around here, the pizza was able to be stretched and slapped into a perfect little pie and it tasted excellent.

-Tom, thank you for all you help, I have started making my centers thicker and they are cooking better now.

Offline scott123

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Re: GLUTEN NEVER DEVELOPS
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2012, 12:32:44 PM »
I don't know why windowpaning is a bad thing around here

Many members of the forum like to maximize flavor with longer ferments. Since time develops gluten, if you fully develop the gluten at the kneading stage by windowpaning, you tend to overdevelop the gluten with the addition of a long ferment.  Windowpaning generally only works well for short, same day ferments.

Offline Gramsci

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Re: GLUTEN NEVER DEVELOPS
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2012, 01:05:24 PM »
Hey Now

Rockford,IL - home to Cheap Trick, greatest band to not be in the Rock and Roll HOF
Cincinnati - the only thing I can think of is Cincinnati Children's Hospital..one of the best

Your dough - it's worthless and weak...now drop and give me 20....less freakin minutes on the mix. Your dough, as has been suggested, is waaaay over developed.  Gluten cannot be built. It can only reveal itself.

You sound like a very nervous person. That's not a compliment and not an insult. In making dough, remember the golden rule...Less is more. Whatever is not mixed in the mixer can be fixed by hand.

Salut

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: GLUTEN NEVER DEVELOPS
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2012, 01:38:52 PM »
Cincinnati - the only thing I can think of is Cincinnati Children's Hospital..one of the best

Chili and ice cream. That's about it. (Unless you're from anywhere beyond a 300-mile radius of Cincinnati. Then just ice cream.)

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: GLUTEN NEVER DEVELOPS
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2012, 01:40:16 PM »
And nutjob talk radio, I suppose, too.

Offline clg763

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Re: GLUTEN NEVER DEVELOPS
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2012, 01:53:11 PM »
Well, I grew up in Rockford, (outside the 300 mile radius) so the Chili was one of the biggest draw-backs of the city as far as I'm concerned.

I can't say I've ever been characterized as a nervous person before, definitely frustrated with dough before though.

As for the silkyness and windowpane, that happened when I pulled the dough from the fridge and made it on day two, it still had some texture on the surface when it went it came out of the mixer.


 

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