Author Topic: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.  (Read 1093 times)

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Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« on: July 21, 2014, 12:45:24 PM »
Last friday I did my first bake using Ischia.

100% Divella
61% Water
3% Salt
1% Ischia

20 hours bulk, 24 balled, at 23 C / 73.4 F

Or that was the plan anyway, it got a bit hot, and the balls where rising out of control so I took my trays to a nearby Belgian Andive farmer with huge cooling rooms to slow down/arrest the rising process for 5 hours, then I got them 1 hour before baking.

Remarks:

Dough was really hard to handle, I even had a hard time getting them out of the trays, during which they lost their round shape, after that it was really hard making round pizzas.

I did 60-90 second bakes and got lots of nice microblisters, but the rest of the dough stayed very pale, it was also rather chewy.

Crowd favorite was Delavecchio's mozz and chives and one I made with creamy  goat cheese that I made spreadable by mixing it with Ricard, topped with  figs and thyme.



Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2014, 12:59:22 PM »
Great lineup of nice looking pies. I really like that first one.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2014, 01:01:34 PM »
Last friday I did my first bake using Ischia.

100% Divella
61% Water
3% Salt
1% Ischia

20 hours bulk, 24 balled, at 23 C / 73.4 F

Or that was the plan anyway, it got a bit hot, and the balls where rising out of control so I took my trays to a nearby Belgian Andive farmer with huge cooling rooms to slow down/arrest the rising process for 5 hours, then I got them 1 hour before baking.

Have you seen this table: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=22649.0
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2014, 01:12:49 PM »
I always use your table Craig, it's just that there is nowhere in my house or shed where I have a constant predictable temperature.
My next project will definitely be converting an old freezer to a proofing box.

Offline vandev

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2014, 03:19:28 PM »
I always use your table Craig, it's just that there is nowhere in my house or shed where I have a constant predictable temperature.
My next project will definitely be converting an old freezer to a proofing box.

Just use a cooler like craig use's as well as me. put a half gallon plastic juice bottle with water frozen and change every 24 hours. Will keep at 65-69 degrees . Works perfect. Your pies look great..  ;D
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 08:37:13 PM by vandev »

Offline TXCraig1

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"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2014, 04:51:43 PM »
I've been using the cooler method too with a lot of success, but since the WFO is finished I always make 20-22 pies 'cause I figure once it's up to temp I might as well feed the neighbourhood. (and it gives me lots of practice). So I bought trays and outgrew the cooler. What I did and worked a bit was stack all my trays, one with dough, one empty, one with dough, one empty..... and when it got too hot I put bottles of ice in the empty trays, but it was too late at that point.

Either way, in winter I'll probably have the problem of it being too cold and will need a proofing cabinet that heats, so I thought I'd build one that does both out of this old freezer.


Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2014, 06:46:11 PM »
I call them amoeba pizza's when they are not round and are odd shaped and tell people I do not charge extra for that  I did 162 pizzas the other day at a timber sport event and as the day progressed to peak heat they tend to want to be odd shaped at times.  I make sure to use ample bench flour, move the pie to a relatively flour free area and then slide the peel and into the oven.  The guy tending the oven had seven blisters on his fore arm and that is what I need to overcome. I suspect a longer brush handle will do the trick, that is when he seems to feel the real heat.

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2015, 06:07:30 AM »
First bake with the oven finished, (well the functional part anyway, still needs cosmetics).

This is the first time not using Divella but 'pizza' flour from a local mill.
I did the gluten ball test I found somewhere on this forum and the local flour came out as little better than Divella so I gave it a try.
I wanted to do 61% hydration  but when I added the water and kneaded it just seemed a lot dryer than I'm used too, so I just kept on adding water, and the flour just kept absorbing, I dunno what I ended up with but could be 63-65%.

I also was pretty negligent with proofing times, just rolled with whatever the ambient temp was. I made 43 balls, ended up with 3 left over the following day and they we're in great shape, where when I used Divella I'm pretty sure they would have been overripe and unusable.

Anyway, I'm pretty stoked about finding great flour around the corner and cheap.  :chef:

63%
1% Ischia
3% salt
24h puntata
30 H appretto but the last 8 hours moved them to a (switched-off) ice chest.

The thing I'm struggling with now is, weirdly enough, too much oven spring.


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2015, 09:04:18 AM »
They look nice. What is the dough weight and pie diameter?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2015, 09:14:52 AM »
250 grams
I don't know the pie diameter, but it was smaler than I would like them to be, I did have a harder time stretching then to the desired size. I'm not sure what that was due to. The flour? The fact I kept them at a cooler temp? Not long enough in balls?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2015, 09:47:24 AM »
250 grams
I don't know the pie diameter, but it was smaler than I would like them to be, I did have a harder time stretching then to the desired size. I'm not sure what that was due to. The flour? The fact I kept them at a cooler temp? Not long enough in balls?

All of those can make pies harder to stretch. If they are really fighting you and pulling back, the flour is probably the biggest culprit though. How long were they in balls and what was the dough temp when you opened them?

I think when you get the diameter where it needs to be, the oven spring problem will solve itself.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2015, 10:07:53 AM »
30 hours in balls but I arrested the maturing after 18 hours by putting them at 5 celcius. I do seem to remember them opening easier later on in the evening after they'd been in ambient temperature for a while..

This week should see the completion of my proofing box, I'll see what that gives. If that doesn't work I might try skipping bulk rise altogether and do 48 hours in balls.

Offline fagilia

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2015, 05:42:23 AM »
I keep my dough in balls for 4 to 6 hours only and they are very relaxed so it is possible.
my dough is more relaxed in general from hand kneading than machine.
Also i think cooling the dpugh is a factor for sure. I actually use this right after balling if i feel the dough is way to relaxed so i cant even put tension in the balls.

in general i think the more relaxed dough you have but with great oven spring  also the better the neapolitan pizza. Downside it is very hard to handle if making more than on at the time. Too much oven spring will affect my dough negative for my liking. It becomes to tough when cooled. The perfect is if dough is so relaxed that if it was just little bit more relaxed it would fall flat. That is perfect for me. Super soft.

when and if my balls are hard i open them in 2 steps with maby a minute in between to make more relaxed on the peel.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 05:48:42 AM by fagilia »

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2015, 07:36:36 AM »
Great tip Fagilia,  thanks!

I also read here that autolyse might help with extensibility: http://www.progressivebaker.com/tips_tools/balancing_elasticity.html

I've read pros and cons about autolyse here, but never experimented with it myself, I'll just give it a try I guess.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 07:50:47 AM by ChristianVerschaeren »

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2015, 09:34:35 AM »
Local 'Pizza' flour
63% Hydro
3% Salt
10% Iscia
24H @ 18 Celcius

Dough was  a joy to handle, only a bit too elastic and not extensible enough (as you can tell by the huge corniccione)
Baked in my wfo. (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=32044.msg375450#msg375450)

Second foto is a Millenium Falco


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2015, 10:47:14 AM »
Love the colors on that last pie.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


Offline HBolte

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2015, 11:53:50 AM »
Thats a good looking pie. I took the liberty of a bit of fixing to correct color balance. I hope you don't mind!
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 10:21:30 AM by HBolte »
Hans

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan bakes from the land of beer.
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2015, 09:24:01 PM »
Thats a good looking pie. I took the liberty of a bit of fixing to correct color balance. I hope you don't mind!

Overexposed it a bit, no?

I thought it looked pretty good the way it was.

Yours:
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


 

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