Author Topic: How I make my NP dough  (Read 89107 times)

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Offline JF_Aidan_Pryde

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2013, 06:20:52 AM »
Hi Craig,
In the "complete process" thread (which I'm only 1/10th the way through) you mentioned that you got better results by letting the dough balls increase by a greater volume. I think at one point you went for 150% increase in volume. Where did you bottom out on this? I find that every time I get to 100% the structure becomes weak. How does one manage large volume increase while still retaining good structure?


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2013, 12:04:03 PM »
Hi Craig,
In the "complete process" thread (which I'm only 1/10th the way through) you mentioned that you got better results by letting the dough balls increase by a greater volume. I think at one point you went for 150% increase in volume. Where did you bottom out on this? I find that every time I get to 100% the structure becomes weak. How does one manage large volume increase while still retaining good structure?

I have the luxury of being able to see the bottom of the balls as I use clear containers, so I go by the bubble structure visible on the bottom not the amount of rise. If I wrote 150%, I probably meant 1.5X the original ball size. I don't remember ever going that small. The smallest I remember is about 1.7X (170%). I'd guess I'm closer to 2X the original ball size now. Perhaps even a little more. I'm 100% convinced that a little too much rise is better than too little.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline swatson

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2013, 04:45:45 AM »
Craig,

When you talk of Rubbermaid tubs I take it these are the hard plastic sealable domestic containers we in Scotland call Tupperware?  If so, when you are storing your balled dough do you seal them completely with lid closed tight, or cover with plastic wrap(cling film)?

Offline Jackitup

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2013, 07:24:13 AM »
i believe he does both and store them bulk, then balled at 65ish degrees and goes by rise and bubble structure on the bottom. put them in a cooler with an icebag and keep temp 65 or so degrees if I remember right

jon
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2013, 09:21:16 AM »
Craig,

When you talk of Rubbermaid tubs I take it these are the hard plastic sealable domestic containers we in Scotland call Tupperware?  If so, when you are storing your balled dough do you seal them completely with lid closed tight, or cover with plastic wrap(cling film)?

Yes, they are lighter/less durable but otherwise similar versions of Tupperware. I usually just set the lid on top. I don't know if pressure buildup inside the tub would hamper rise or not. In any case, the pressure will pop the lead sooner or later. All you really want is something to stop air circulation from drying out the surface of the dough and making a skin. A loose lid works just fine.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline swatson

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2013, 09:39:52 AM »
Hi Craig,

Thanks for the reply, I've just about finished my clay oven and want the best pies to go in it, unfortunately I don't have a culture I use 'dried active yeast' what percentage of this should I use?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2013, 11:05:17 AM »
Hi Craig,

Thanks for the reply, I've just about finished my clay oven and want the best pies to go in it, unfortunately I don't have a culture I use 'dried active yeast' what percentage of this should I use?

That's a good question that I don't know if anyone has ever nailed down for 48 hours.

For my Ischia in the 60-75F range, I would say it is approximately: 1% Ischia = 0.015% IDY, 0.02% ADY, or 0.05% CY
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline sub

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2013, 11:18:15 AM »
Hi swatson,

I use brewer's yeast, 0.5g / liter (0.03%) @ 18° try 3 times less with the dried.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 11:21:24 AM by sub »

Offline swatson

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2013, 11:37:43 AM »
These are tiny quantities, how do yous measure these out?


Offline sub

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #59 on: July 16, 2013, 11:45:48 AM »
With a dealer scale  :P

They're very cheap on ebay





Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #60 on: July 16, 2013, 12:06:11 PM »
These are tiny quantities, how do yous measure these out?

Say you want 0.1g of yeast and you scale only measures to 1g resolution, dissolve 1g yeast in 99g water and use 10g of the mixture to get 0.1g ~+/- 0.04g

You can increase the accuracy ot ~+/-0.004g by using a scale that measures to 0.1g resolution or by dissolving 10g yeast in 990g water and use 10g of the mixture.

Be sure to subtract water in the mixture from formula water.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline swatson

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2013, 03:01:11 PM »
So if the recipe called for 400g of water use 390 plus the 10g with yeast?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2013, 03:15:10 PM »
So if the recipe called for 400g of water use 390 plus the 10g with yeast?

Yes. Well 390.1g to be precise.  :-D
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline swatson

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2013, 03:19:01 PM »
Also, why would you not expect to see any rise in the first 24hr ferment?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #64 on: July 16, 2013, 03:54:50 PM »
Also, why would you not expect to see any rise in the first 24hr ferment?

It's just a function of yeast/culture quantity and temperature. It's just math - how many doublings does it take to see rise and how fast does it double at a given temperature. I want to see just the earliest signs of rise - tiny little bubbles just starting to form.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline swatson

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2013, 05:29:11 PM »
Craig, thanks for answering all my questions I am only at the start of my journey understanding dough/yeasts/cultures so appreciate you not getting frustrated.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #66 on: July 16, 2013, 06:41:27 PM »
Craig, thanks for answering all my questions I am only at the start of my journey understanding dough/yeasts/cultures so appreciate you not getting frustrated.

No problem. I posted this to help.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


Offline swatson

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #67 on: July 18, 2013, 07:56:31 AM »
I had £10 left on Amazon vouchers so have ordered the micro scales not bad at £5, and a little flexible dough cutter. That should make things easier when using such small quantities.

Offline iRobertO

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2013, 03:37:29 AM »
Say you want 0.1g of yeast and you scale only measures to 1g resolution, dissolve 1g yeast in 99g water and use 10g of the mixture to get 0.1g ~+/- 0.04g

You can increase the accuracy ot ~+/-0.004g by using a scale that measures to 0.1g resolution or by dissolving 10g yeast in 990g water and use 10g of the mixture.

Be sure to subtract water in the mixture from formula water.

This is clever..

iRobertO

Offline Rick M

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #69 on: July 26, 2013, 07:10:20 PM »
Craig;

When using the Preferment Calculator, do you use the "% of Total Flour"  or  "% of Total Water"   I noticed in some past posts that you used % of Total Water   but then then i read something that Norma put out and shes using % of Total Water.   ??????????   It's about a third different. 

Rick M
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2013, 09:24:01 PM »
Craig;

When using the Preferment Calculator, do you use the "% of Total Flour"  or  "% of Total Water"   I noticed in some past posts that you used % of Total Water   but then then i read something that Norma put out and shes using % of Total Water.   ??????????   It's about a third different. 

Rick M

Everything you see fom me is % of flour.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Oceans05

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #71 on: August 02, 2013, 12:12:41 AM »
Everything you see fom me is % of flour.

Thank you for clearing that up:

Quick question, I am making my very first dough with the Ischia starter, and when I made my dough with 61% hydration, I placed it in a stainless bowl with a wet towel covering it, in a cooler kept at 65F for 24 hours. When I just took the bowl out of the cooler, there was condensation in the bowl and a slight pool of water :(

Needless to say, I tried to ball it for the first time using the method at 9:50 in this video

The dough was more sticky than when I made it, it was difficult to retrieve from the stainless bowl since I did not add an oiled layer, and it did not pinch off as easily as in the video. Because the dough had higher hydration from the condensation, it is not perfectly smooth in my oiled tupperware tubs

When you bulk ferment, have you ever had this condensation happen in the bowl? Should I try to bulk ferment without a wet towel covering the bowl and should I add an oil layer for easier retrieval?

Thanks!

Stephan

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #72 on: August 04, 2013, 05:50:11 PM »
Thank you for clearing that up:

Quick question, I am making my very first dough with the Ischia starter, and when I made my dough with 61% hydration, I placed it in a stainless bowl with a wet towel covering it, in a cooler kept at 65F for 24 hours. When I just took the bowl out of the cooler, there was condensation in the bowl and a slight pool of water :(

The dough was more sticky than when I made it, it was difficult to retrieve from the stainless bowl since I did not add an oiled layer, and it did not pinch off as easily as in the video. Because the dough had higher hydration from the condensation, it is not perfectly smooth in my oiled tupperware tubs

When you bulk ferment, have you ever had this condensation happen in the bowl? Should I try to bulk ferment without a wet towel covering the bowl and should I add an oil layer for easier retrieval?

Thanks!

Stephan

I cover my bulk and balls with plastic and I don't get any condensation. I would not use oil on the top of the balls. Flour sticks to it an can make your finished pies ugly.

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Oceans05

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #73 on: August 04, 2013, 10:42:57 PM »
I cover my bulk and balls with plastic and I don't get any condensation. I would not use oil on the top of the balls. Flour sticks to it an can make your finished pies ugly.

I will try the covering with plastic method, and wow thanks for the tip about not covering the top of the balls with oil! That explains alot why I always had bunched up flour sticking to it making the top of the crust bitter and ugly! haha!  :o

 :chef:

Offline DenaliPete

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #74 on: August 05, 2013, 04:53:28 PM »
Craig,

Do you have any interest in making a tutorial video on how you ball your dough and later open it up?  I think you help to pass on a ton of knowledge, and I think visually seeing what you do may help people with using proper technique and mechanics.

Pete


 

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