Author Topic: How I make my NP dough  (Read 37422 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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How I make my NP dough
« on: August 14, 2012, 01:28:24 PM »
100% Caputo (my typical batch is ~1.3kg flour)
62.5% Water at about 40-45F (play with this over time in a range of 60-64%)
3.0% Salt (I would not go lower than 2.5% or more than maybe 3.1%)
1.3% Ischia Culture (fully active) NO FRESH YEAST, IDY, or ADY!!! Trust your culture. The hydration and flour you use in your culture donít matter much at quantities this low.  Iím probably a little stiffer than 100%, but I doubt it is significant.

1) Dissolve the salt in the water.
2) Mix in the culture until itís pretty well dissolved. I use a hand whisk and froth it up some too.
3) Quickly add about 2/3 of the flour and mix (I use a KitchenAid K5SS) until basically homogeneous. I use the dough hook in my hand to get all the flour wet quickly, and then I put it on the mixer.
4) Add the remaining 1/3 of the flour evenly over the next 5 minutes or so allowing each addition to become incorporated before adding the next bit.
5) Mix until generally smooth and homogenous. It wonít get completely smooth and silky yet. It will still have a bit of a rough look when you stop the mixer. Itís going to feel somewhat tacky and rather soft.
6) Dump it onto a counter, give it 20 or so kneads until it is fairly stiff, cover with plastic or a bowl, and let it rest for 7-10 minutes. In the summer, I put it on a plate and let it rest (covered) in the fridge.
7) It will have relaxed noticeably. Stretch and fold it 4 or 5 times. Watch this video if you donít know what I mean by stretch and fold: http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/video/2008/03/bertinet_sweetdough.  It will get stiff again and get some tears on the surface. Cover and let it rest again for another 7-10 minutes. Remember to try to capture air in the dough as you do your stretch and folds.
8] Give it a few more stretch and folds. If it is now silky smooth, youíre done. If not, give it one more rest and a few more stretch-and-folds, and you should be good to go.
9) Put it in a container and let it ferment in bulk for 24 hours at ~65F. Ideally, you will see virtually no rise after 24 hours. You should maybe start to see some tiny little bubbles forming. This is how I do my bulk ferment: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18509.msg179991.html#msg179991
10) Ball the dough (make them tight without tearing the skin) and let ferment another 20-24 hours. I use lightly oiled individual Rubbermaid tubs. I use 250g balls for a 13Ē pizza. If you want a very large cornice, use 275g.

Dough trays are fine too but a little touchier as the balls will come together and will need to be cut apart and lifted out with a scraper. With the lightly oiled tubs, the dough ball just rolls right out onto your flour pile. Start the ball fermentation at ~65F in the same set-up you use for your bulk. After 12 hours, youíll have to pay attention to what is going on and either keep it at 65F or let it warm as high as 78F or so to get the balls ready when you want them ready.

After doing it a couple times, you get a handle on how changes in temperature affect activity. It can be quite variable. Sometime I need to keep the balls at 65F for almost the entire time. Sometimes the last 10 hours or so may be 78F. Ideally, at least the last couple hours will be at 78F or so. You get a little better oven rise performance when the dough is warmer (though leoparding may be better when the dough is cooler).  More times than not, I end up keeping my dough balls at 65F or so for about 18 hours and then bring them up to 78F for the final 4+ hours. If you want a temperature between 65F and 78F, open the door of the cooler but leave the ice block in there. If you really need to slow things down, stick the balls in the fridge for 15-20 minutes or so. You may have to do this several times. Donít go longer. You really donít want the dough to get too cold especially if it is close to the time you want to bake it.

Your culture, how active it is, temperature and temperature stability will all affect things. So will hydration and salinity if you vary them. You really need to experiment some to dial things in exactly where you want them and to understand what adjustments you need to make as environmental conditions change.

Pictures:
1) Adding the remaining flour Ė the dough kind of tears up and incorporates air as it comes back together.
2) The dough is ready to come out of the mixer.
3) The dough is stiff after the 20 kneads and needs a rest.
4) The dough is now relaxed, but you can see how it is not yet smooth. Capture air in the dough as you stretch and fold.
5) Notice how smooth it is now after a couple rests and stretch and folds. A couple more until it is stiff and itís ready for the bulk ferment.
6) How I like the bulk dough to look just before balling Ė the only signs of activity are tiny little bubbles.
7) This bulk dough has too much activity. Cut back your yeast or temperature. I donít want to feel gas, and I donít want bubbles of gas coming to the surface when I form, the balls.
8] This dough ball is about ready to bake.
9) This is about the most rise I want to see in a dough ball.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 01:33:12 PM by TXCraig1 »
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2012, 01:29:02 PM »
The last of the pics:
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 01:34:21 PM by TXCraig1 »
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline randyjohnsonhve

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2012, 01:39:32 PM »

Howdy Craig...

Great stuff as usual...I am surprised you do not use an autolyse of at least 20 min...Why is this when most bread makers say it is an important part of the process...

RJelli :chef:
"Pizza Evolves...Our Best Pizza Ever is Not Today." It is 'what' is right, not 'who' is right that matters.

Offline Mangia Pizza

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2012, 01:45:57 PM »
 Craig, thanks for your "secret" of NP dough making! 8)
Paolo

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2012, 02:06:09 PM »
Howdy Craig...

Great stuff as usual...I am surprised you do not use an autolyse of at least 20 min...Why is this when most bread makers say it is an important part of the process...

RJelli :chef:

I always do for bread. I don't see any reason though for pizza. I've tried it many times both ways. For one thing, I don't want my dough warming up to room temperature for an extra 20 minutes before bulk.

CL
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2012, 03:03:06 PM »
NO FRESH YEAST, IDY, or ADY!!! Trust your culture.


+1. You're either going to go sourdough or not has always been my train of thought. A healthy, well maintained starter will provide plenty of spring/lift and do so dependably on a repeated basis.

Quote
7) It will have relaxed noticeably. Stretch and fold it 4 or 5 times. Watch this video if you donít know what I mean by stretch and fold: http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/video/2008/03/bertinet_sweetdough.


French slap and fold. A stretch and fold typically does not have the dough mass leave the table. That being said, this is an excellent way to incorporate air into a dough.

Quote
After doing it a couple times, you get a handle on how changes in temperature affect activity. It can be quite variable.


Tell me about it!  :D

Quote
Pictures:
6) How I like the bulk dough to look just before balling Ė the only signs of activity are tiny little bubbles.
7) This bulk dough has too much activity. Cut back your yeast or temperature. I donít want to feel gas, and I donít want bubbles of gas coming to the surface when I form, the balls.


I think these will be very informative for people Craig. Excellent to have included them.

For many here over the years, myself included when I first switched to Caputo, starter and long ferments a few years ago, not seeing any noticeable lift in the bulk mass can be disconcerting the first time. It's just part of the process and seeing noticeable lift is not a good thing!

Signing off on what is bound to become one of the most viewed posts on the forum.

Great post Craig.
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Online scott123

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2012, 03:21:25 PM »
Fantastic post, Craig. 

I know it's heresy, but, for those beginners that aren't quite yet ready to tackle sourdough, would you have a ballpark IDY quantity?

Offline mishon

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2012, 04:28:06 PM »
This is an excellent education resource.  Thank you for sharing!

Michael.
"There can't be good living where there is not good drinking." óBenjamin Franklin

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2012, 04:58:42 PM »
Fantastic post, Craig. 

I know it's heresy, but, for those beginners that aren't quite yet ready to tackle sourdough, would you have a ballpark IDY quantity?

No. I've never tried it. I know others have the number though. Hopefully they will chime in.

CL
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2012, 05:28:42 PM »
Craig,

Great writeup.

I assume the percent of your Ischia culture is with respect to the weight of formula flour. If so, I estimate that the Ischia culture is around 2% if measured with respect to the formula water, which is the Neapolitan method. Is that correct?

Based on a 250-gram dough ball for a 13" pizza, I get a thickness factor of 0.066437. I agree with you at the amount of Ischia culture you are using, it will not perturbate the formula flour and water. I did some quick calculations and estimate that the change in total formula water is about 0.25%. So, if someone wants to modify your formulation to make a larger or smaller pizza size or to make any specific number of pizzas, they can use the preferment dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/preferment_calculator.html with the baker's percents you provided and the thickness factor value mentioned above. They also have the option of changing the thickness factor if desired if they want a thicker or thinner crust.

Peter


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2012, 05:35:55 PM »
Craig,

Great writeup.

I assume the percent of your Ischia culture is with respect to the weight of formula flour. If so, I estimate that the Ischia culture is around 2% if measured with respect to the formula water, which is the Neapolitan method. Is that correct?


Thanks, Peter. Yes, that is correct. All the measurements above are % of the flour. As a % of water, the yeast is about 2.1%, the flour is 160%, and the salt is 4.8%. I didn't incluse that as very few people reference there formula the Neapolitan way here.

CL
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2012, 05:40:40 PM »
Thanks, Peter. Yes, that is correct. All the measurements above are % of the flour. As a % of water, the yeast is about 2.1%, the flour is 160%, and the salt is 4.8%. I didn't include that as very few people reference their formula the Neapolitan way here.

Craig,

Yes, that is what I thought. I just wanted to see if the Ischia culture fell within the roughly 1-5% of the formula water that Marco recommends. He is a tough character but I think he would be proud of you.

Peter

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2012, 09:33:53 PM »
Craig,

Yes, that is what I thought. I just wanted to see if the Ischia culture fell within the roughly 1-5% of the formula water that Marco recommends. He is a tough character but I think he would be proud of you.

Peter

That's high praise. Thank you!

CL
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2012, 10:00:59 AM »
A note on how I ball the dough -

When making my balls, I fold the edges under and up into the middle of the ball, over and over, until they are very tight - any tighter and I'd tear the skin. A little flour on the top of the ball helps. When the ball is tight, I pinch closed at the bottom leaving as little seam as possible.

I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Giggliato

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2012, 07:59:34 PM »
What is the reasoning behind getting the doughball tight?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2012, 09:31:00 PM »
If you are using dough trays, so they spread out a little less. For me, so the dough is a little less extensible.

CL
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline vincentoc13

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2012, 07:20:31 PM »
Hi,

This will be my first time making pizza with the ischia starter for that matter any starter.  OK, I admit it I suck at math that being said I was wondering if you could let me know exactly how much i should use for each ingredient in grams for five 250 gram dough balls?  I will be following the steps in your process but thats the only part thats holding me back.  I have a WFO and will be having family over this Saturday.  I will be making my go to dough (Neapolitan) as well as your recipe hoping it will someday be my go to dough.  if there is anybody out there that has suggestions I would really appreciate it.

Thank You,

Vincent

Offline deb415611

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2012, 07:32:01 PM »
Hi,

This will be my first time making pizza with the ischia starter for that matter any starter.  OK, I admit it I suck at math that being said I was wondering if you could let me know exactly how much i should use for each ingredient in grams for five 250 gram dough balls?  I will be following the steps in your process but thats the only part thats holding me back.  I have a WFO and will be having family over this Saturday.  I will be making my go to dough (Neapolitan) as well as your recipe hoping it will someday be my go to dough.  if there is anybody out there that has suggestions I would really appreciate it.

Thank You,

Vincent


Vincent,

this calculator should help
http://www.pizzamaking.com/preferment_calculator.html

Offline vincentoc13

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2012, 09:23:46 PM »
Thank you,

man 1.3 % of starter sure does seem low , but what do I know hehe

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2012, 12:20:52 AM »
Hi,

This will be my first time making pizza with the ischia starter for that matter any starter.  OK, I admit it I suck at math that being said I was wondering if you could let me know exactly how much i should use for each ingredient in grams for five 250 gram dough balls?  I will be following the steps in your process but thats the only part thats holding me back.  I have a WFO and will be having family over this Saturday.  I will be making my go to dough (Neapolitan) as well as your recipe hoping it will someday be my go to dough.  if there is anybody out there that has suggestions I would really appreciate it.

Thank You,

Vincent

Here is the spreadsheet I use to make my dough. You can change the yellow cells.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuvMQbzk5INUdE1mVkMyOEY2My1sc1phRTJBSmo5TVE#gid=0
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.


 

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