Author Topic: How I make my NP dough  (Read 37337 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2013, 05:05:02 PM »
Hi Craig or others. I am following Craig's directions and did first 24hr in bulk at 65 degrees and balled them last night and kept at 65 degrees. Have not seen any rise so I moved them into oven with light on (about75 degrees). This is my first SD try and not sure it the balls should rise to the same extent as standard dough with yeast. How much rise should I expect?

Yes, they should double or so and will look about the same an dough leavened with commercial yeast.

What culture are you using? How do you activate it before use? How did you measure it? What is the size of your batch?
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.


Offline sdarrow

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2013, 07:42:24 PM »
Hi Craig,

Thank you for the response. I am using sourdo Italian culture. Activated it per their instructions but it is fairly new, only about 3 weeks old. I did make sure it was active before I used it. Per the calculator, only used 1.3% preferment. Used KA bread flour in the culture but Caputo in the dough. I am trying another experiment, took the majority of the dough and added about 8 oz of starter (trying to do 4 hr ferment based on the one chart I saw) and incorporated it into the dough. Will not make a real pie with it but going to cook the dough just to see how it turns out. Will compare against the original and see what happens. That said, not expecting anything due to the lack of activity in the dough. I can only assume the culture was not mature enough/predictable enough.

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2013, 08:59:33 PM »
Be patient. As long as you're sure the starter was active you're fine!

Post an upshot pic of the bottom of the dough container so that he/we can comment further! :chef:

John K

Offline sdarrow

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2013, 11:01:49 PM »
Thanks John,

I will do so on my next attempt as it is already gone. It did develop some air pockets on the bottom. I did cook some dough and it did taste like sour dough, just did not rise. I Will not give up!

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2013, 11:37:33 PM »
Arrow,

Give your next batch more time and you will be rewarded with a beautiful surprise. My personal "discovery/aha moment" occured about 18-24 hours after making my first batch of camaldoli-based dough. The results of the 8 pies I cooked were "meh". But unbeknownst to me, my wife had unintentionally hidden two stray balls inside (where the temp was about 78 degrees). I Found them the next day.

Needless to say, at some point during those 18-24 hours the yeast (and dough) had "come alive", and formed the types of balls that I had been hoping for.  So now I always plan a little extra time if I'm using starter in my dough. You can always arrest the process by throwing the balls in a cold fridge, if they become "ready" before the guests arrive. 

John K


Offline adm

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2013, 11:52:07 AM »
Well....after reading through this all, MANY THANKS for the extremely detailed description.

I am going to attempt to follow your dough workflow (more or less) for Pizza on Saturday, so have just made up a batch of dough for 8 250g dough balls using your exact specification. I don't have the Ischia culture, but I do have my own sourdough culture that works well for bread baking.

Where I deviated was in the dough mixing. I just took delivery of a brand new DLX mixer today and wanted to play with that puppy rather than do the stretch and folds by hand. Bottom line was the dough came out looking and feeling baby bottom smooth so hopefully it will be OK. Might be a recipe for disaster though as I could have overmixed it. Only time will tell.

Anyway. The dough is in bulk at 65C in a temperature controlled freidge that I normally use for beer making. Before this I have used much higher amounts of starter and cold ferment so I am interested to see how this works.

Onwards and Upwards!

Offline JF_Aidan_Pryde

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #46 on: July 02, 2013, 04:09:56 AM »
Hi Craig,
 
Sorry if this has been mentioned before but what is the benefit/tradeoff of doing a bulk ferment followed by a balled ferment vs. balled ferment alone for the same time period?

The closets environment I have for fermentation is 58F in my wine fridge. Any issues you see using it?

Thanks,
-James

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2013, 07:56:58 AM »
Hi Craig,
 
Sorry if this has been mentioned before but what is the benefit/tradeoff of doing a bulk ferment followed by a balled ferment vs. balled ferment alone for the same time period?

The closets environment I have for fermentation is 58F in my wine fridge. Any issues you see using it?



Operationally speaking, bulk dough takes up less room than balled. Restaurants may not have the space to have multiple days dough in balls. Functionally, the longer your dough is in balls, the slacker it is going to be when you open it, AOTBE. There will be textural differences in the baked product that result from the time (if any) in balls and the time in bulk.

58F will work, it may affect the flavor produced by your culture which may be positive, negative, or unnoticeable. You will probably need to increase the culture amount from what I use. Here is a place to start from: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22649.0.html
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline rrweather

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2013, 03:04:54 PM »
What do people typically use for their waste calculations? I am going to make a batch of dough tomorrow and want to try using the calculator Craig posted a link to. Not sure what I should plan on losing to waste. Thanks,

Randy

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #49 on: July 03, 2013, 03:19:27 PM »
I use 1%, but you might want to use 2% if you don't have a lot of experience.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.


Offline JF_Aidan_Pryde

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2013, 06:20:52 AM »
Hi Craig,
In the "complete process" thread (which I'm only 1/10th the way through) you mentioned that you got better results by letting the dough balls increase by a greater volume. I think at one point you went for 150% increase in volume. Where did you bottom out on this? I find that every time I get to 100% the structure becomes weak. How does one manage large volume increase while still retaining good structure?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2013, 12:04:03 PM »
Hi Craig,
In the "complete process" thread (which I'm only 1/10th the way through) you mentioned that you got better results by letting the dough balls increase by a greater volume. I think at one point you went for 150% increase in volume. Where did you bottom out on this? I find that every time I get to 100% the structure becomes weak. How does one manage large volume increase while still retaining good structure?

I have the luxury of being able to see the bottom of the balls as I use clear containers, so I go by the bubble structure visible on the bottom not the amount of rise. If I wrote 150%, I probably meant 1.5X the original ball size. I don't remember ever going that small. The smallest I remember is about 1.7X (170%). I'd guess I'm closer to 2X the original ball size now. Perhaps even a little more. I'm 100% convinced that a little too much rise is better than too little.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline swatson

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2013, 04:45:45 AM »
Craig,

When you talk of Rubbermaid tubs I take it these are the hard plastic sealable domestic containers we in Scotland call Tupperware?  If so, when you are storing your balled dough do you seal them completely with lid closed tight, or cover with plastic wrap(cling film)?

Offline Jackitup

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2013, 07:24:13 AM »
i believe he does both and store them bulk, then balled at 65ish degrees and goes by rise and bubble structure on the bottom. put them in a cooler with an icebag and keep temp 65 or so degrees if I remember right

jon
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2013, 09:21:16 AM »
Craig,

When you talk of Rubbermaid tubs I take it these are the hard plastic sealable domestic containers we in Scotland call Tupperware?  If so, when you are storing your balled dough do you seal them completely with lid closed tight, or cover with plastic wrap(cling film)?

Yes, they are lighter/less durable but otherwise similar versions of Tupperware. I usually just set the lid on top. I don't know if pressure buildup inside the tub would hamper rise or not. In any case, the pressure will pop the lead sooner or later. All you really want is something to stop air circulation from drying out the surface of the dough and making a skin. A loose lid works just fine.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline swatson

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2013, 09:39:52 AM »
Hi Craig,

Thanks for the reply, I've just about finished my clay oven and want the best pies to go in it, unfortunately I don't have a culture I use 'dried active yeast' what percentage of this should I use?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2013, 11:05:17 AM »
Hi Craig,

Thanks for the reply, I've just about finished my clay oven and want the best pies to go in it, unfortunately I don't have a culture I use 'dried active yeast' what percentage of this should I use?

That's a good question that I don't know if anyone has ever nailed down for 48 hours.

For my Ischia in the 60-75F range, I would say it is approximately: 1% Ischia = 0.015% IDY, 0.02% ADY, or 0.05% CY
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline sub

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2013, 11:18:15 AM »
Hi swatson,

I use brewer's yeast, 0.5g / liter (0.03%) @ 18 try 3 times less with the dried.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 11:21:24 AM by sub »

Offline swatson

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2013, 11:37:43 AM »
These are tiny quantities, how do yous measure these out?

Offline sub

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #59 on: July 16, 2013, 11:45:48 AM »
With a dealer scale  :P

They're very cheap on ebay