Author Topic: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage  (Read 59441 times)

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Offline Totti

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #200 on: March 07, 2014, 05:15:12 AM »
No good guys. :( Caputo was dead in the water, 5 Stagione still holding but it's back to the drawing board...

Less heat, less yeast. Good news is my culture arrived into Australia today, so I should be starting it with a bit of luck next week.

If at first you don't succeed..


Offline tangtang

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2014, 10:37:12 PM »
Craig,
I wonder if the Lehman calculator can be used to resemble the dough you make but using cake yeast. How would you describe the TF of your pizzas? My 9" disks are made from 160-170g balls, if I use the Lehman calculator and put in a TF of 0.07 (which I saw referred to in this forum as Neapolitan standard) I end up with balls of 123g. Just last night I baked my first WFO pies and know that I need to change a few things to get nearer where I want to be (our guests still thought the pies were awesome!), for one thing I would have increased the ball size by 10 or so gram - so looking at the Lehman calculator results this morning make me wonder a bit, as it suggest going in the opposite direction.

Another question concerning your yeast prediction model: Using cake yeast 0.3% - how do results of a 38hr 41F ferment compare to a 7hr 72F? You write that you never cold ferment (plus you use culture not fresh yeast as I do), but my current understanding of things would let me assume that the longer cold ferment allows to develop more flavor. Is that so or does the 72F produce good results too in such as short time (7hrs)?

Last but not least a general question on hydration, please forgive my lack of knowledge - I couldn't figure out from the posts here. In NP should I aim for high or low hydration. I thought low is the way to go, but looking at Omid's results http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14506.msg306226#msg306226 with the 72% hydration makes me wonder again - its the opposite direction of where I would have gone now...

Welcome to my pizza rollercoaster  ???

Offline pacdunes

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #202 on: March 20, 2014, 06:33:10 PM »
Hi Craig - I'm looking for advice on how to improve the dough elasticity.  I have tried different water %'ages.  I have been around 60% lately not really knowing if that is the issue (going to 62% hasn't really made a difference).  I live in arizona so it's very dry here.  My ishchia SD is fully active.  Using sea salt (2.5%) and caputo 00.

Would going lower hydration help or hurt the goal?  Thanks!

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #203 on: March 20, 2014, 08:49:55 PM »
Hi Craig - I'm looking for advice on how to improve the dough elasticity.  I have tried different water %'ages.  I have been around 60% lately not really knowing if that is the issue (going to 62% hasn't really made a difference).  I live in arizona so it's very dry here.  My ishchia SD is fully active.  Using sea salt (2.5%) and caputo 00.

Would going lower hydration help or hurt the goal?  Thanks!

Please define "improve." What is your dough like now, and how would you like it to be different? You will really need to describe your entire formula and workflow before we can be much help. You might want to start a new thread for this.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #204 on: March 20, 2014, 09:12:18 PM »
How would you describe the TF of your pizzas?

I wouldn't. TF has no place in NP, IMO. I use 275g for 13" but to convert that to oz/in^2 would be completely meaningless. Depending on what you are looking for, you could go quite a  bit less. I doubt you would want too much more. This is all I use: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuvMQbzk5INUdE1mVkMyOEY2My1sc1phRTJBSmo5TVE&usp=drive_web#gid=3

Quote
Another question concerning your yeast prediction model: Using cake yeast 0.3% - how do results of a 38hr 41F ferment compare to a 7hr 72F? You write that you never cold ferment (plus you use culture not fresh yeast as I do), but my current understanding of things would let me assume that the longer cold ferment allows to develop more flavor. Is that so or does the 72F produce good results too in such as short time (7hrs)?

I'm not going to tell you to cold ferment even if you use cake yeast. IMO, a pizza will be better in every conceivable way if you don't cold ferment. I'd estimate that you need at least 4X as long in the fridge as you do at room temp to get even close to the same flavor. That is, 1 day at room temp is roughly equal to 4 days in the fridge, AOTBE. And even still, it won't be as good in any way. Period.

Quote
Last but not least a general question on hydration, please forgive my lack of knowledge - I couldn't figure out from the posts here. In NP should I aim for high or low hydration. I thought low is the way to go, but looking at Omid's results http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14506.msg306226#msg306226 with the 72% hydration makes me wonder again - its the opposite direction of where I would have gone now...

I've had great NP ranging from at least 58%-72%. HR is only one of many factors that have to be balanced. You have to experiment and see what you like best for you given your unique situation an tastes.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline tangtang

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #205 on: March 21, 2014, 12:45:24 PM »
Thank you Craig
This is all I use: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuvMQbzk5INUdE1mVkMyOEY2My1sc1phRTJBSmo5TVE&usp=drive_web#gid=3


this already helps. The link however begs for more questions: I can't make sense of the above link, 82% hydration  ???
what kind of yeast are you referring to, ADY, IDY or CY?
if I assuem its CY and compare this with the yeast prediction calculator at 77F (your house temp.) I end up with a 2hr ambient ferment?

Offline tangtang

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #206 on: March 21, 2014, 12:46:24 PM »

I'm not going to tell you to cold ferment even if you use cake yeast. IMO, a pizza will be better in every conceivable way if you don't cold ferment. I'd estimate that you need at least 4X as long in the fridge as you do at room temp to get even close to the same flavor. That is, 1 day at room temp is roughly equal to 4 days in the fridge, AOTBE. And even still, it won't be as good in any way. Period.


That is exactly what I want to hear (at least I do think it is for now, let's wait for summer crazy temperatures here that might take this task to another level); for one thing I like the ambient fermentation and only started experimenting with CF due to numerous remarks that a longer fermentation time will do some sort of magic. For another thing I would find it convenient with our small business as we dont have lots of cooling opportunities anyways.

Offline tangtang

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #207 on: March 21, 2014, 12:46:56 PM »

I've had great NP ranging from at least 58%-72%. HR is only one of many factors that have to be balanced. You have to experiment and see what you like best for you given your unique situation an tastes.

see above my comment on the link which refers to 87% hydration, is this a mistake?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #208 on: March 21, 2014, 08:56:17 PM »
see above my comment on the link which refers to 87% hydration, is this a mistake?

I think you misunderstand the purpose of the spreadsheet. 87% is not my formula. You can put whatever numbers you like in the yellow cells and it will calculate the resulting formula based on those specifications. Nothing in or about the worksheet tells you what you should be doing. It looks like someone was using it for a Sicilian formula or something. Change the numbers in the yellow cells and see how the formula numbers change.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #209 on: March 21, 2014, 09:05:23 PM »
Thank you Craig
this already helps. The link however begs for more questions: I can't make sense of the above link, 82% hydration  ???
what kind of yeast are you referring to, ADY, IDY or CY?
if I assuem its CY and compare this with the yeast prediction calculator at 77F (your house temp.) I end up with a 2hr ambient ferment?

Just reinforcing my comment above. That's not my formula. The worksheet is just for easy access to the formulas. The only inputs you should trust are the ones you enter into the yelow cells yourself.
Pizza is not bread.


Offline tangtang

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #210 on: March 21, 2014, 10:08:24 PM »
I think you misunderstand the purpose of the spreadsheet. 87% is not my formula. You can put whatever numbers you like in the yellow cells and it will calculate the resulting formula based on those specifications. Nothing in or about the worksheet tells you what you should be doing. It looks like someone was using it for a Sicilian formula or something. Change the numbers in the yellow cells and see how the formula numbers change.

 :-[

Offline pacdunes

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #211 on: March 22, 2014, 04:28:13 PM »
Please define "improve." What is your dough like now, and how would you like it to be different? You will really need to describe your entire formula and workflow before we can be much help. You might want to start a new thread for this.
My dough is fairly delicate when I open it.  If I work it a little too aggressively, I can tear a small pin hole in it (which I fix easily).  I'd like to improve it towards being a little more resilient (towards a NY style dough ball).

I use your technique for making the dough - using the spreadsheet for exact measurments.  I knead it in the KA for 5 mins, then stretch and fold, rest, repeat about 3 times.  Ferment around 24 hrs at 65 deg, then ball into tupperware for another 24 hrs.

(If this is still not enough detail, I can start a new thread in the dough section).  I guess the very least, is that I'd like to know how resilient your dough is when you open it?  Do you ever create any tears, are you extremely light handed, etc?  Thanks!

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #212 on: March 22, 2014, 05:11:16 PM »
My dough is very soft and easy to open. I need to exercise care to not let it get too thin. As another member said of it once, a stern look is about all it takes.

Cutting your ball time down into the 8-12 hour range will make it a bit more elastic. So will lowering the HR a couple notches.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline pacdunes

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #213 on: March 22, 2014, 06:32:14 PM »
Thanks Craig.  What is HR again?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #214 on: March 22, 2014, 07:04:28 PM »
HR = Hydration ratio, calculated as weight of water/weight of flour.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline pacdunes

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #215 on: March 22, 2014, 07:59:58 PM »
thanks!

Offline Steve

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #216 on: March 31, 2014, 08:24:29 PM »
I made up some of Craig's dough to use in my 2stone (and my Pizza Party WFO). I didn't have a starter, so I used IDY. It's going to get a 3 day fermentation in the refrigerator.
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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #217 on: March 31, 2014, 11:30:06 PM »
I made up some of Craig's dough to use in my 2stone (and my Pizza Party WFO). I didn't have a starter, so I used IDY. It's going to get a 3 day fermentation in the refrigerator.
Sounds great man...please don't forget the pics on Thursday.
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Offline pacdunes

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #218 on: April 01, 2014, 08:06:28 PM »
My dough is very soft and easy to open. I need to exercise care to not let it get too thin. As another member said of it once, a stern look is about all it takes.

Cutting your ball time down into the 8-12 hour range will make it a bit more elastic. So will lowering the HR a couple notches.
Thank you Craig!  Your tips worked perfectly.  Just had my best dough ever!

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #219 on: April 01, 2014, 08:26:38 PM »
Thank you Craig!  Your tips worked perfectly.  Just had my best dough ever!

Awesome. I love to hear it!
Pizza is not bread.