Author Topic: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage  (Read 89886 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tscarborough

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3844
  • Location: Austin, TX
    • Pizza Anarchy
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2012, 10:33:31 PM »
I have been thinking about your oven, Craig.  Given that it is a commercial oven and a traditional Neapolitan built one.  10 hours to heat is crazy.  If you were to invest in 4-500 dollars of insulation blankets and build an insulating door, you could probably keep it above 500 degrees with a weekly firing of 2-3 hours (which would bring it to your pizza temps), even less with a couple of short firings spaced 3 days apart.


Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12515
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2012, 10:37:02 PM »
Would that be safe in an unattended garage....
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Tscarborough

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3844
  • Location: Austin, TX
    • Pizza Anarchy
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2012, 10:45:32 PM »
Safer than a 10 hour burn.

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16198
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2012, 11:18:46 PM »
Safer than a 10 hour burn.

I fail to see anything unsafe about either. The same oven runs 7 days/ week without a problem.

Without a 10 hour warm-up to watch the fire from my easy chair, where would I drink my wine?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3056
  • Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2012, 11:22:33 PM »
... 10 hours to heat is crazy.... 

Take into consideration that Craig said the most close hotel was in walking distance.  I Googled it and called bs.  I asked him about it, he said that he and Java walk by it several mornings a week.  It is a good 2 freekin' miles.  I think the Aleppo or Calabrian chili business has put his computer in default mode.  If not, than his brain. :-D
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12515
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2012, 11:38:32 PM »
Things can go bump in the night, particularly outside in a garage...but then, Craig's a good sailor an knows all about battening down hatches an keeping everything ship shape.After all, he's already sleeping well with the residue heat so....I've answered my concern....next!!  ;D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline CJ

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 34
  • Location: N California
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2012, 11:46:45 PM »
Thank you Craig

Offline pizza dr

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 389
  • Location: Las Cruces New Mexico
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2012, 11:10:14 AM »
Man in the past I've had to go through your "Craigs NP Garage" thread and spend hours picking up all the nuances.  NOW its one stop shopping.  Unbelievably kind and generous.

Thanks

Scot

Offline pizza dr

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 389
  • Location: Las Cruces New Mexico
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2012, 11:12:49 AM »
Oh yeah  +1 on this being sticky.


Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16198
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2012, 11:16:35 AM »
Man in the past I've had to go through your "Craigs NP Garage" thread and spend hours picking up all the nuances.  NOW its one stop shopping.  Unbelievably kind and generous.

Thanks

Scot

I'm very happy it's helpful Scot.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline PizzaPolice

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 435
  • Location: N/W Indiana
  • WFO-Where Art & Physics meet - Heat is the Arbiter
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2012, 03:59:37 PM »
Simply beautiful, sir. 

Offline stephent

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 25
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2012, 11:08:32 AM »
Craig,
I'm sure you used cake yeast at some point (which is what Roberto Caporuscio uses as well asmany other good pies), but how would its use instead of Ischia starter change your formula and/or work flow?

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16198
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2012, 11:18:01 AM »
Craig,
I'm sure you used cake yeast at some point (which is what Roberto Caporuscio uses as well asmany other good pies), but how would its use instead of Ischia starter change your formula and/or work flow?

Actually, the last time I used cake yeast was when I worked in a restaurant in 1994 (not a pizza place).

I don't think I'd change anything about the workflow. I would just need to figure out how much CY to use. My suggestion would be to make a poolish with flour and water (50:50) and a little cake yeast. You won't need too much. When it is good and active, substitute it for the Ischia culture. I think I'd start at maybe 1.1% as it's probably a little faster than Ischia. You can then fine tune subsequent batches based on how fast it rises. I'm sure others here can give you a better idea or suggest how much cake yeast to add directly to the dough in lieu of the Ischia culture.

Craig
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline fornographer

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 247
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2012, 12:33:05 PM »

Actually, the last time I used cake yeast was when I worked in a restaurant in 1994 (not a pizza place).

I don't think I'd change anything about the workflow. I would just need to figure out how much CY to use. My suggestion would be to make a poolish with flour and water (50:50) and a little cake yeast. You won't need too much. When it is good and active, substitute it for the Ischia culture. I think I'd start at maybe 1.1% as it's probably a little faster than Ischia. You can then fine tune subsequent batches based on how fast it rises. I'm sure others here can give you a better idea or suggest how much cake yeast to add directly to the dough in lieu of the Ischia culture.

Craig

Try starting with a very tiny bit of CY about the size of a peppercorn  for 1000 grams of flour. I froze my CY and just broke of that tiny bit and placed it directly in the brine.  I did two batches of dough the last time with 1 being an Ischia based and the other CY based.   They were identical in behavior during bulk fermentation (using roughly your workflow) with barely any rise but during balled rise the CY rose faster. 

Offline fornographer

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 247
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2012, 07:11:03 PM »
Thank you Craig.  I made pizzas tonight using your entire workflow.  This is the best I have made so far.  Everyone loved it and I only had time to make a few pictures. 

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16198
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2012, 09:04:29 PM »
Wow, that is beautiful. Awesome pie!

My son just walked up as I was writing this and asked, "Is that one of your pies... It looks like one of your pies." I guess that means the workflow works.  ;D
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12515
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2012, 09:24:38 PM »
That is cute how your boy refers to it as "pie"  :)
And I suspect we all will now soon be enjoying many more great pics of Craig clones thanks to this thread....
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16198
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2012, 12:19:36 AM »
I had been cheating my bulk rise a little lately - making my dough later and later in the evening. This would take as much as 4 hours off my bulk rise. I had been suspecting that this was negatively impacting my final product. For the pies I made yesterday, I made the dough early enough in the day that it would get a full 24 hours in bulk. It made a meaningful difference in the finished pies.

Also, the longer you can keep your balls at ~65F, the better. I tinkered with the yeast a little (1.45%) and hit it right on where the balls were perfect after 24 hours at ~65F. I left them out at 90F (my outside temp) for about 30 minutes before baking. They were some of my best pies ever.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Online thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2058
  • Age: 61
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2012, 04:58:55 PM »
craig can you take a picture of the individual dough balls just before you stretch. what would happen if you increase the starter? does it give more rise,change your flavor,or just decrease the workable period for the dough.how do you determine your percentage.

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16198
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2012, 05:34:14 PM »
craig can you take a picture of the individual dough balls just before you stretch. what would happen if you increase the starter? does it give more rise,change your flavor,or just decrease the workable period for the dough.how do you determine your percentage.

If I increased the starter, all other things being equal, it would be ready faster and have less flavor. Since I use so little, the starter add no flavor directly. All the flavor comes from the fermentation. I've found that starters develop different flavors when allowed to work at different temperatures. Others such as Bill/SFNM have reported similar findings. I believe we both agree that we prefer the flavors generated around 64-65F for pizza (for bread, I prefer the mid 90F's.). The starter % I use is designed to yield a dough that is ready in 48 hours. I've found the last 4 hours (hours 44-48) make quite a big difference, so I don't want to go any less than 48. I've also found if I cut back the starter and go another day (72hours) it gets too sour. 48 hours at 65F seems to be the sweet spot.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Online thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2058
  • Age: 61
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2012, 07:30:48 PM »
craig, what is the advantage of your method vs keste who uses minimal yeast and 48 hour fermentation to make his dough. the dough sours some from the long room rise.seems you are both getting the same final results.

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16198
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2012, 08:11:53 PM »
craig, what is the advantage of your method vs keste who uses minimal yeast and 48 hour fermentation to make his dough. the dough sours some from the long room rise.seems you are both getting the same final results.

I was thinking that Roberto was doing a 24hours bulk and 48 hours in balls? He is also using CY, right? Perhaps I'm biased, but I'd say my dough has more flavor. I hope you will come to Texas someday soon, try my pizza, and tell me if there is an advantage or not. I'd trust your opinion on a Margherita above just about anyone elses.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Online thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2058
  • Age: 61
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2012, 10:07:44 AM »
 craig, that is quite a compliment! trust me i will be making a trip to the garage. i'm sorry i missed the last outing.it is the top of my list. i'm sure my jersey buddy will make the trek with me. you know john "tell it like it is" conklin  :-D

Offline othafa9

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 68
  • Location: Las Vegas, NV
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2012, 01:41:06 PM »
You can definately get good cornicione using a "slap" technique.  Just takes practice:)

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16198
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2012, 01:58:42 PM »
You can definately get good cornicione using a "slap" technique.  Just takes practice:)

Try it with my dough though, and you will have a 18" round after about 3 slaps.  :-D
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage