Author Topic: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage  (Read 90191 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2012, 10:00:43 PM »
craig can you take a picture of the individual dough balls just before you stretch.

Here you go.

1) In the container (for sake of terminology, you are seeing the bottom of the dough ball)
2) Out of the container (bottom of the doughball is up)
3) First press with my fingers after flipping once (top of dough ball is now up)
4) Second press with the fingers after a flip and 45 degree rotation (bottom of dough ball is now up)
5) A quick pass over the knuckles and ready to top (top of the dough ball is now up)
6) Baked

You can really see the difference in smoothness between the top and bottom of the dough ball.

The thicker part of the cornice you see in the 5th picture will get stretched out a little more even after I get the topped pie on on the peel.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 10:45:52 PM by TXCraig1 »
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3057
  • Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #51 on: September 03, 2012, 10:09:14 PM »
Just a second opinion, but Craig's dough is incredibly easy to open.  It's like a wet, yet firm wash cloth on top of your knuckles.  Unless you completely get it wrong, you could almost command the dough ball to open itself.  Seriously.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #52 on: September 03, 2012, 10:10:08 PM »
Just a second opinion, but Craig's dough is incredibly easy to open.  It's like a wet, yet firm wash cloth on top of your knuckles.  Unless you completely get it wrong, you could almost command the dough ball to open itself.  Seriously.

Thanks Gene. You'll notice it's just about all the way open after just two pressings with my fingers.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #53 on: September 03, 2012, 10:15:28 PM »
Freshly balled dough.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2058
  • Age: 61
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2012, 07:15:07 AM »
Looks like you get a lot of activity very slowly ! Thanks for the pic

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Giggliato

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 266
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2012, 10:44:43 AM »
That dough looks just about right. I can almost feel it through the monitor  :-D :-D

I do wonder about the amount of rise that you are getting in your containers though. I seem to recall some pictures from Verasano's restaurant where the doughball rises to the entire volume of the containers which are similarly sized to yours. I've never eaten Verasano's nor yours but I do wonder about the differences.

Your pictures seem to show the doughball rising to about a third of the containers volume... But as they say, if the pizza is good, eat it.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2012, 11:12:46 AM »
That dough looks just about right. I can almost feel it through the monitor  :-D :-D

I do wonder about the amount of rise that you are getting in your containers though. I seem to recall some pictures from Verasano's restaurant where the doughball rises to the entire volume of the containers which are similarly sized to yours. I've never eaten Verasano's nor yours but I do wonder about the differences.

Your pictures seem to show the doughball rising to about a third of the containers volume... But as they say, if the pizza is good, eat it.

I don't think his dough rises that much. I just went and looked at his website to confirm, and he says he likes 1.5X rise. In the pictures, the dough is nowhere near filling the container. It doesn't look much different than mine; maybe a little less risen even. Mine fill maybe 15-20% of the container when they are ready to bake. I don't go by size. I go by the look of the bubbles.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Bill/SFNM

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4362
  • Location: Santa Fe, NM
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2012, 07:26:18 PM »
Craig,

So I applied a portion of your process to my latest batch. Instead of bulk fermenting for 43 hours and individual proofing for 5 hours, I bulked for 24 hours and proofed for 24 hours. I still want to run some more tests, but this dough was the easiest dough ever for stretching. Almost no stretching required, just a stern look from me and it responded immediately. I really liked the way it baked up.

One thing I did not like that differs from my standard dough: as it cooled, the crust toughened considerably. This is not usually a problem since my pizzas don't have time to reach that state. But is this something you have observed? 


Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2012, 07:41:13 PM »
No, I have not noticed a meaningful difference between the toughness after cooling with this fermentation regiment vs. longer in bulk and less in balls. I would say my crust tenderness/toughness after cooling is on par with what I've seen at places like Keste, Motorino, etc.

Can you think of any reason why more time in balls would negatively effect this? I would intuitively think it might me more tender as the gluten is more relaxed when it is baked. Perhaps this has an opposite effect?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Bill/SFNM

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4362
  • Location: Santa Fe, NM
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #60 on: September 09, 2012, 08:23:02 PM »
No idea. Something I need to play around with to confirm if what I have observed is true. You must be familiar with Fett's law - Never replicate a successful experiment.

 

Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3057
  • Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #61 on: September 09, 2012, 08:29:21 PM »
You must be familiar with Fett's law - Never replicate a successful experiment.
 

I knew there was a scientific reason about why the warden gets tired of stuff so fast. :-D
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2012, 02:53:37 PM »
Craig,

So I applied a portion of your process to my latest batch. Instead of bulk fermenting for 43 hours and individual proofing for 5 hours, I bulked for 24 hours and proofed for 24 hours. I still want to run some more tests, but this dough was the easiest dough ever for stretching. Almost no stretching required, just a stern look from me and it responded immediately. I really liked the way it baked up.

One thing I did not like that differs from my standard dough: as it cooled, the crust toughened considerably. This is not usually a problem since my pizzas don't have time to reach that state. But is this something you have observed? 

I changed my workflow this week to 36 hours bulk and 12 hours ball. No other changes or changes to the formula. It was definitely more difficult to open though it didn't fight me or anything like that. I did not notice any difference in the tenderness of the crust as it cooled vs. 24 hours in balls. I prefer the workability of the dough with 24 hours in balls. It is also easier to ball with only 24 hours bulk.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline bakeshack

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 721
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2012, 02:57:17 PM »
Craig, after you balled the dough, are there noticeable bubbles on the surface of the dough balls?

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #64 on: September 16, 2012, 03:00:48 PM »
Craig, after you balled the dough, are there noticeable bubbles on the surface of the dough balls?

Not when I only do 24 hours of bulk. With 36h, there were a few, but not too bad. I don't like balling dough that has very much gas in it (~>5-10% rise). I don't like the way it feels, and intuitively it just seems wrong to me. I can't give anything concrete to back that up however.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline bakeshack

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 721
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2012, 04:55:30 PM »
Yes I agree 100% that is why I have settled on a shorter bulk fermentation method to avoid too much bubbles durin balling.  I believe  the bubbles during the balling stage gets too large by the time you start using them resulting in the burnt large bubbles around the crust.

Marlon

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2012, 05:08:17 PM »
When you are opening a ball, if you see a large bubble at the rim, do you pop it?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


Offline bakeshack

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 721
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #67 on: September 16, 2012, 05:22:39 PM »
I release some air by poking a hole and then I reseal it again.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #68 on: September 16, 2012, 05:29:22 PM »
I poke, but I've never tried resealing. If I see one blowing up in the oven, I smash it with the edge of the peel.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline bakeshack

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 721
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #69 on: September 16, 2012, 05:34:09 PM »
I do the same inside the oven.  I figured by resealing it, it somehow maintains the look around the crust and it doesn't look too deflated.  With the shorter bulk though, I rarely get them unless the dough gets a little over fermented by the time it gets used.

Offline Home_Deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 30
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #70 on: October 11, 2012, 08:21:10 PM »
thank you so much for your help!  Have you posted your fennel sausage recipe on here?  I am into making sausage and never had a recipe I was 100% liking.  I dabbled in pepperoni making both raw/fermented and cooked.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 01:27:51 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #71 on: October 11, 2012, 09:08:35 PM »
thank you so much for your help!  Have you posted your fennel sausage recipe on here?  I am into making sausage and never had a recipe I was 100% liking.  I dabbled in pepperoni making both raw/fermented and cooked.

I use Johnsonville Mild Italian Sausage and doctor it like this: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19393.msg201178.html#msg201178
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Home_Deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 30
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #72 on: October 11, 2012, 09:56:47 PM »
interesting, need to try that.. thanks
I use Johnsonville Mild Italian Sausage and doctor it like this: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19393.msg201178.html#msg201178

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #73 on: October 12, 2012, 07:03:12 PM »
Pizza bake time explained:

(No offence intended to my deep dish friends  ;))
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24387
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #74 on: October 12, 2012, 07:14:57 PM »
Pizza bake time explained:

(No offence intended to my deep dish friends  ;))

Craig,

Lol, that is a great guide!  :-D  Did you design and draw that yourself?

Norma


 

pizzapan