Looking for a Cleveland Oh dough recipe

[tberichon]

I grew up in Cleveland and the pizza was medium crust American style mostly cooked on 9" and 12" pans with a crimped edges.
The crust was well browned, good flavor, with a denser texture, not soft but chewy...
Here is my starting point:

Flour 100%
water 58%
sugar 2.6%
salt 1.5%
shortening 2.5%
yeast .3%
 
I am trying to change the texture to a denser, darker, flavorful crust. Your thoughts on less shortening? Less water? more sugar? thanks

[thezaman]

i'm a fan of cleveland pizza which places have you tried?

[tberichon]

The west side...Angelo's, Dante's, Danny Boys, Trios back in the 70's and 80's. Mama Santo's in Little Italy...I am attempting a few 12" pizzas today to see if I can duplicate the Crust.
What are your favorites?

[thezaman]

angelo's, just got best in Cleveland with one of the TV polls.augie's,teressa's,antonio's, crastada's, guido's ravenna ,and the pizza style out of Youngstown bryer hill.

[Mad_Ernie]

I grew up in Cleveland and the pizza was medium crust American style mostly cooked on 9" and 12" pans with a crimped edges.
The crust was well browned, good flavor, with a denser texture, not soft but chewy...
Here is my starting point:

Flour 100%
water 58%
sugar 2.6%
salt 1.5%
shortening 2.5%
yeast .3%
 
I am trying to change the texture to a denser, darker, flavorful crust. Your thoughts on less shortening? Less water? more sugar? thanks

Great!

I have some thoughts, but I think rather than just throwing opinions around, you have to start somewhere, and no one will be a better judge of the final results than you.   

So, the best thing is to just pick a starting point, do it, and see how the final results compare with what you are trying to achieve.  After that, post your results and tell us what you think is close and what is off, and then you'll get some better direction in to where to go from there.

Good luck!

-ME

[tberichon]

Here is one i baked tonight. It was very close on flavor but i am looking for a denser, chewier crust. My next attempt may be to increase the oil a few % and decrease the water a few%. Also increasing the oil in pan to "fry" the crust a little.
Any thoughts?

[tberichon]

I did increase the above formula oil amount to 4% on pictures above.

flour 100%
water 56%
sugar 2.5%
salt   1.5%
oil     4%
yeast .4% IDY
 
I am not too far off to the texture I am looking for. I will attempt again tomorrow. Looking for ideas to achieve the chewy texture.

[thezaman]

that dough looks like guidos ravenna, they partially stretch their dough in the panand refrigerate at order time they pull it from the fridge finish stretching it top and bake.i work their during college. what did you do for sauce? the pie looks very close!!!they also used crisco on the pan to hold the dough in place.

[tberichon]

For sauce i used Staislaus Full Red with Basil. i thinned and spiced  it slightly.

I worked at Trios in Rocky River in late 70's and we aslo sheeted the dough, panned it in fridge for 24 hr ferment. When order came in, We then pulled out of cooler, crimped the edges, sauced, topped and baked.

My next attempt will have an increase in oil to see if that creates the denser crust i am looking for although 4% is more than i usually use.
TB

[Mad_Ernie]

For sauce i used Staislaus Full Red with Basil. i thinned and spiced  it slightly.

I worked at Trios in Rocky River in late 70's and we aslo sheeted the dough, panned it in fridge for 24 hr ferment. When order came in, We then pulled out of cooler, crimped the edges, sauced, topped and baked.

My next attempt will have an increase in oil to see if that creates the denser crust i am looking for although 4% is more than i usually use.
TB

Before you increase the oil, TB, what type of flour are you using for the dough?  And how you preparing the dough?  Do you use a cold-rise in the refrigerator over time or do you use a same-day, room temperature rise, or something else?

By your description, I am guessing that you are trying to achieve something that would be akin to a Pizza Hut pan pizza for those of us who have not had the pleasure of a true Cleveland style pizza ... is that correct?

-ME

[tberichon]

Hi Mad Earnie,
although I am not a PH fan and cannot say that I have ever had a PH pizza so I cannot compare.
My process is mix in KA 5-6 min, scale to 14 oz, ball by hand, rest 20 min, roll out to 8-10", then place on oiled pan to retard in fridge, overnight preferably. When i pull out next day, the dough is easy to form the 12" pie to the edges.

I am using Bouncer Premium Hi Gluten flour. I bake in a 450-475* oven 14-16 min.

So i guess i am using a cold ferment in a way. I agree that more oil may not be what i am looking for. My last attempt was too soft,tender.
I am thinking 2% across the board on oil, sugar, and salt and leaving the water at the 56% to achieve the denseness and chew.
 What are your thoughts?

[Mad_Ernie]

Hi Mad Earnie,
although I am not a PH fan and cannot say that I have ever had a PH pizza so I cannot compare.
My process is mix in KA 5-6 min, scale to 14 oz, ball by hand, rest 20 min, roll out to 8-10", then place on oiled pan to retard in fridge, overnight preferably. When i pull out next day, the dough is easy to form the 12" pie to the edges.

I am using Bouncer Premium Hi Gluten flour. I bake in a 450-475* oven 14-16 min.

So i guess i am using a cold ferment in a way. I agree that more oil may not be what i am looking for. My last attempt was too soft,tender.
I am thinking 2% across the board on oil, sugar, and salt and leaving the water at the 56% to achieve the denseness and chew.
 What are your thoughts?

I think your proportions sound good, but I caution on changing too many things at once.  If you still don't get what you're looking for, you won't know which of the 3 changes is correct or incorrect.  I would start with just decreasing the oil to 2% and go from there.

Anxious to hear about your next results. 

-ME

[kevn357]

Any luck here or should a new cleveland style thread be started?