Author Topic: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza  (Read 10562 times)

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Offline andreguidon

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #80 on: August 17, 2012, 07:34:49 AM »
Andre, can you shed some light on this?

Well, and this is my point of view about this matter, the big leopard spots happen usually wen cold fermented because of humidity and more sugar still in the dough, to Neapolitans cold ferment is a poor management, usually cold fermented dough has a tendency to have a wetter out layer because of condensation and the sugars are more present because of the low fermentation (yeast eating less starch) and hi enzyme activity, wen this dough hits a very hot oven the poorly distributed gas (because of cold fermentation and humidity) wants to escape making bigger pockets of gas near the outer crust that has allot of sugar, burning a bigger portion of the dough.

hope my english os good enough, i am also a foreigner....
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Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #81 on: August 17, 2012, 07:59:20 AM »
Well, and this is my point of view about this matter, the big leopard spots happen usually wen cold fermented because of humidity and more sugar still in the dough, to Neapolitans cold ferment is a poor management, usually cold fermented dough has a tendency to have a wetter out layer because of condensation and the sugars are more present because of the low fermentation (yeast eating less starch) and hi enzyme activity, wen this dough hits a very hot oven the poorly distributed gas (because of cold fermentation and humidity) wants to escape making bigger pockets of gas near the outer crust that has allot of sugar, burning a bigger portion of the dough.

hope my english os good enough, i am also a foreigner....

Well put Andre. I might also suggest that the cold environment is not as optimum for producing a gluten network as room temp is, especially if you have not developed the dough correctly before cold fermenting. The large bubbles escaping to the surface may be due to reduced strength in the dough. Marco gave a hint to this when he pointed out the similarity in baked bread: large voids at the top and a dense layer at the bottom. I experienced this when I was trying to make Tartine bread early on, where I did cold ferments and got the exact scenario Marco is describing.

I am probably the impetus for this thread, by posting a positive review of a pizza shop in the Reviews section. I am actually glad I did: we got to see a post from Marco on Neapolitan dough making, and we have not seen that in quite some time. One more bit of information from an authority on this elusive style is a good thing in my book.

John

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #82 on: August 17, 2012, 08:12:59 AM »
Actually, now that I am thinking through this: too much yeast and too long a time in the fridge could also cause over fermentation even at the reduced temperature - resulting in no gluten network left to support the gasses. It all tries to escape to the top.

John

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #83 on: August 17, 2012, 08:27:57 AM »
Just curious, why were many of Marco's earlier posts deleted?


Don,

Most of the modifications to posts, and deletion in some cases, transpired in 2005. My recollection is that Marco concluded that he had put too much information in his posts, and that he decided that it was best to put it into the book he was planning rather than on the forum, which might have discouraged some people from buying the book. I think that Marco put it best, in his own words, in his post at Reply 117 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1298.msg13380/topicseen.html#msg13380 (middle paragraph).

I also think that it is important to keep in mind that being a very active member on this forum can consume a lot of time, more than many people can devote. I'm sure that Marco has a lot on his plate, with a family, job, consultancy, etc., that make it difficult for him to craft elaborate posts on the forum. And, maybe some day he will write the book.

I personally am glad when Marco periodically shows up on the forum to share new information with us or to point out things that strike a nerve with him. He wouldn't do that if he didn't care.

Peter

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #84 on: August 17, 2012, 08:31:19 AM »
Actually, now that I am thinking through this: too much yeast and too long a time in the fridge could also cause over fermentation even at the reduced temperature - resulting in no gluten network left to support the gasses. It all tries to escape to the top.

John

John, I also agree with this info, that completes my theory... thanks!!
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

cornicione54

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #85 on: August 17, 2012, 08:50:34 AM »
Actually, now that I am thinking through this: too much yeast and too long a time in the fridge could also cause over fermentation even at the reduced temperature - resulting in no gluten network left to support the gasses. It all tries to escape to the top.

John

That explanation makes sense. How do you think that correlates with the problem of digestibility that Marco raises?

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #86 on: August 17, 2012, 09:02:31 AM »
That explanation makes sense. How do you think that correlates with the problem of digestibility that Marco raises?

Allot, because of the excess starch that the east did not eat...
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cornicione54

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #87 on: August 17, 2012, 09:15:53 AM »
Allot, because of the excess starch that the east did not eat...

Overfermentation and excess starch? Surely more starch gets "eaten" in an overfermented scenario?

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #88 on: August 17, 2012, 09:19:29 AM »
I am talking about the first scenario that i exposed.
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cornicione54

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #89 on: August 17, 2012, 09:24:41 AM »
I am talking about the first scenario that i exposed.
Ah got it!  Yeah that makes sense. thanks.


Offline norma427

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #90 on: August 17, 2012, 10:47:13 AM »

I personally am glad when Marco periodically shows up on the forum to share new information with us or to point out things that strike a nerve with him. He wouldn't do that if he didn't care.

Peter


Peter,

I am also glad when Marco shows up on the forum to share new information, or to point out things that strike a nerve with him.  I think Marco wouldn't show up he if didn't care too.

I have read a lot of Marco's posts, but always want to learn more.  I guess that is part of my pizza learning journey.  I wasn't a member of the forum when Marco first started posting. 

Norma
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Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #91 on: August 17, 2012, 10:57:32 AM »
Alright, I'll use the damn Flip camera next bake  ;D

Did you get the damn regular Flip or the damn Flip HD?   :D

I've got the HD and the picture quality is definitely good enough. My brother has the regular (non-HD) version and it also has good enough picture quality.

The real issue with either (and indeed any mini sized video recorder) is image stability. Even slight movements are magnified on the screen. I'm used to it and just pretend I'm buzzing and on a gently rocking boat while viewing, but I mostly try to mount the Flip to a tripod or set it on top of a table, stack of books, etc. --k
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cornicione54

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #92 on: August 17, 2012, 11:00:50 AM »
Did you get the damn regular Flip or the damn Flip HD?   :D

I've got the HD and the picture quality is definitely good enough. My brother has the regular (non-HD) version and it also has good enough picture quality.

The real issue with either (and indeed any mini sized video recorder) is image stability. Even slight movements are magnified on the screen. I'm used to it and just pretend I'm buzzing and on a gently rocking boat while viewing, but I mostly try to mount the Flip to a tripod or set it on top of a table, stack of books, etc. --k


If it's the camera used to shoot this video
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li7BEwJeocY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li7BEwJeocY</a>

then I think you'll be fine Scott. 

Offline Don K

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #93 on: August 17, 2012, 11:17:18 AM »
Don,

Most of the modifications to posts, and deletion in some cases, transpired in 2005. My recollection is that Marco concluded that he had put too much information in his posts, and that he decided that it was best to put it into the book he was planning rather than on the forum, which might have discouraged some people from buying the book. I think that Marco put it best, in his own words, in his post at Reply 117 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1298.msg13380/topicseen.html#msg13380 (middle paragraph).

I also think that it is important to keep in mind that being a very active member on this forum can consume a lot of time, more than many people can devote. I'm sure that Marco has a lot on his plate, with a family, job, consultancy, etc., that make it difficult for him to craft elaborate posts on the forum. And, maybe some day he will write the book.

I personally am glad when Marco periodically shows up on the forum to share new information with us or to point out things that strike a nerve with him. He wouldn't do that if he didn't care.

Peter


Thanks Peter. Obviously, being a relative newcomer to the forum, I wasn't aware if Marco's contribution.

I'm thinking that the language barrier has contributed to this thread's digression. The term "defective dough" is probably a little strong. That seems to be what set things in the wrong direction. Nobody that's put a lot of effort into their craft wants to be told that their product is defective.
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Offline Pulcinella

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #94 on: August 17, 2012, 02:55:20 PM »
Maybe we can learn about the leoparding spots from Marcos own masterpieces, pizza pics

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2186.0.html

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,861.0.html
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 02:59:53 PM by Pulcinella »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #95 on: August 17, 2012, 03:01:13 PM »
Maybe we can learn about the leoparding spots from Marcos own masterpieces, pizza pics

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2186.0.html

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,861.0.html
Not quite sure you are helping his cause with those pics friend....
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #96 on: August 17, 2012, 04:48:11 PM »
Not quite sure you are helping his cause with those pics friend....

Maybe he is not trying to...

Offline scott123

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #97 on: August 17, 2012, 04:54:06 PM »
Did you get the damn regular Flip or the damn Flip HD?   :D

 :-D

I got the damn Flip HD with image stabilization, so I guess I should be alright.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #98 on: August 17, 2012, 05:05:42 PM »
Maybe he is not trying to...
I was thinking the same thing, Chau.  ;)  But without knowing the man I thought he might be a misinformed supporter trying to help Marco out....jus try'in to be tackful , I mean polite, my man...
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pictures of pseudo Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #99 on: August 17, 2012, 05:07:47 PM »
:-D

I got the damn Flip HD with image stabilization, so I guess I should be alright.
Wow...how much did that set ya back bro?   :'(
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