Author Topic: Disappointing pies tonight (Read 6453 times)

slybarman · « **Reply #40 on:** September 19, 2012, 08:41:41 PM »

I finally got to make some dough tonight. I added the oil (4%) at the beginning this time as Scott suggested. It did make a big difference. The final dough was not oily. At 61% it was more wet and tacky like I would have expected.

I tried to under-knead the dough again, but still do not have a good feel for when to stop. I definitely stopped before it was smooth. Did I knead it enough? Any opinions on the look of this dough?

scott123 · « **Reply #41 on:** September 19, 2012, 08:59:12 PM »

Steve, if you were working with a weaker flour, which is what I recommend, then you'd want to knead it a bit further- not smooth, but maybe half way between what you have there and smooth. For All Trumps that you plan on cold fermenting for at least a night, that should be perfect.

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #42 on:** September 19, 2012, 09:09:45 PM »

Quote from: slybarman on September 19, 2012, 08:41:41 PM

I finally got to make some dough tonight. I added the oil (4%) at the beginning this time as Scott suggested. It did make a big difference. The final dough was not oily. At 61% it was more wet and tacky like I would have expected.

I tried to under-knead the dough again, but still do not have a good feel for when to stop. I definitely stopped before it was smooth. Did I knead it enough? Any opinions on the look of this dough?

How many min. was that....speed?

slybarman · « **Reply #43 on:** September 19, 2012, 09:22:22 PM »

Quote from: scott123 on September 19, 2012, 08:59:12 PM

Steve, if you were working with a weaker flour, which is what I recommend, then you'd want to knead it a bit further- not smooth, but maybe half way between what you have there and smooth. For All Trumps that you plan on cold fermenting for at least a night, that should be perfect.

Cool. Thanks Scott. This will be a 3 day cold ferment.

slybarman · « **Reply #44 on:** September 19, 2012, 09:24:18 PM »

Quote from: Chicago Bob on September 19, 2012, 09:09:45 PM

How many min. was that....speed?

I mixed with the spiral hook on speed #1 until all the flour was taken up then I switched to speed #2 for kneading. I didn't have a stopwatch going this time, but I would guess 2 mins kneading on #2.

slybarman · « **Reply #45 on:** September 24, 2012, 10:45:50 AM »

Quote from: scott123 on September 07, 2012, 12:42:29 PM

When you get a chance, pre-heat your oven for an hour and take some readings of the stone. I'd like to get to the bottom of the mystery of how you're getting 6 minute bake times with cordierite.

Scott:

Finally had the chance to do this on Saturday. After a 1 1/2 hr pre-heat in the 545 degree oven the stone temp was . . . . . . . 545. $:-\$

No help there. I can tell you that my bake time this go-around was a full minute longer. The dough felt much wetter and much tackier than it has in the past - I assume this was the result of my adding the oil "up-front". I wonder if maybe all the oil that I had on the outside of the dough the last time could have been a factor in the lower bake time?

I did a pie in the grill last night using just the stone and the IR burner. Got closer to a good pie this time. I was impatient and launched with the stone at 625-630. I should have let it come back down just a bit more. I also let the IR burner get good and hot before I launched. The top was mostly done as much as it needed to be when the bottom started to head toward over-done. I think if I had launched with the stone at 600, I would have had it. I am not sure what the total time was. I had company and was a bit too distracted to run the timer. I plan to give this another try though when time permits and also experiment with the baking sheet ceiling.

scott123 · « **Reply #46 on:** September 27, 2012, 05:18:39 AM »

Steve, thanks for the temperature readings. It's still a bit of mystery, but the additional minute makes a little more sense.

It sounds like you're getting the hang of the grill. Get your hands on that turning peel that we talked about- either that or a screen. Either will go a long way in correcting too high of a stone temp by getting the pizza up off the stone.

slybarman · « **Reply #47 on:** September 28, 2012, 06:01:02 PM »

Any thoughts one which of these would make the better turning peel for home oven and grill use? The grill gets pretty darn hot and I am not sure if the short handled one will be long enough to keep my hands from burning (happened a bit last time).

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/american-metalcraft-3209-9-x-11-pizza-peel-with-aluminum-blade-32-1-2/1243209.html

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/american-metalcraft-674-6-3-4-x-7-3-4-aluminum-pizza-peel-20-1-2/124674.html

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/american-metalcraft-17080-8-round-pizza-peel-with-aluminum-blade/12417080.html

scott123 · « **Reply #48 on:** September 29, 2012, 02:00:30 AM »

Steve, I would think that, in a jam, one could turn a pizza with a square peel, but I really think a round peel is ideal for this purpose. The handle on the round peel should be plenty long enough to work with. I work with this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003E22RS4/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i01

which is a much smaller handle.

MightyPizzaOven · « **Reply #49 on:** October 04, 2012, 10:56:02 AM »

I have a 10" Round pizza peel, similar to the one the one Scott referenced. Definitely better than a rectangular pizza peel for turning your pizza.

weemis · « **Reply #50 on:** October 04, 2012, 11:25:43 AM »

I had a rectangular one similar to the one you linked to. It was great except the handle wasn't nearly long enough and my knuckles were paying the price in my 40" WFO. I now have a 59" long, 9" diameter perforated GI metal peel. I liked the rectangular one better for turning. Using a round turning peel to turn pizzas similar in size has proven to be more of an effort than with the rectangular one for my usage.

slybarman · « **Reply #51 on:** October 04, 2012, 03:48:46 PM »

Thanks gents for the advice. Just got back home from a work trip and I need to buy the peel and make some new dough.

slybarman · « **Reply #52 on:** October 07, 2012, 03:22:42 PM »

Guys:

I am looking to have another go with the grill tonight. I was experimenting a bit with the IR burner. Feeling with my hand, it seemed like this was generating a lot more top heat over the stone - at least once the lid was opened. What do you guys predict this will do?

slybarman · « **Reply #53 on:** October 07, 2012, 06:56:25 PM »

Oops - I think I accidentally locked the thread after my last post.

Anyhow, I gave it a go. I think there is some potential here. I definitely got more top heat, but I still have not dialed in the top/bottom balance. To further complicate matters, it started pouring rain just about the time I was ready to bake the pies and my grill is not under cover. Have you ever tried launching pies off a peel that is getting soaked with rain. Argggggh. As you can see the second pie (pepperoni) stuck to the peel and ended up oblong.

In general, I find working with the grill to be pretty tough in terms of managing temps. First I overshot the stone, then it got too cool. Too much top heat, the not enough, etc. It feels like a bit of a juggling act. You can see of the pepperoni pie, I let the stone cool too much and the bottom was a bit underdone compared to the top. I also lit the IR burner sooner. Also, despite turning (i thought quite a bit) one side of the pepperoni pie gut burned by the IR.

Sorry for the half-chewed photos but I was hungry!

To further complicate matters, I was working with a higher hydration dough than I have in the past - 63%. I also lowered the oil back down to 2% which definitely resulted in a chewier dough.

so many variables . . .

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #54 on:** October 07, 2012, 07:02:03 PM »

Top and bottom color looks good to me....

If you could swap that tray for a stone you'll eliminate some variables you mentioned.

slybarman · « **Reply #55 on:** October 07, 2012, 07:05:31 PM »

Thanks Bob. The photos (taken with my phone) might make it look a bit better balanced than it really was. It wasn't awful, but there was room for improvement.

pizzaneer · « **Reply #56 on:** October 07, 2012, 08:36:05 PM »

I've had some nights I was just happy to get a pie off the peel without tearing a big hole and dumping sauce and cheese all over the stone. With this weather, I sure wasn't planning on anything outside tonight - extra points for the effort!

Still using the AT bromated? They look good.

Brian

slybarman · « **Reply #57 on:** October 07, 2012, 08:45:36 PM »

Quote from: pizzaneer on October 07, 2012, 08:36:05 PM

I've had some nights I was just happy to get a pie off the peel without tearing a big hole and dumping sauce and cheese all over the stone. With this weather, I sure wasn't planning on anything outside tonight - extra points for the effort!

Still using the AT bromated? They look good.

Brian

Brian:

Still AT bromated until I run through what I have left, then I may consider something with a bit less protein for next time - per Scott's suggestion.

Unfortunately, by the time the rain started, it was too late to pre-heat the oven and still feed the kiddies on time. I was committed.

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #58 on:** October 07, 2012, 09:32:35 PM »

Quote from: slybarman on October 07, 2012, 08:45:36 PM

I was committed.

Please post some more of your great pizza pics as soon as you are released......

slybarman · « **Reply #59 on:** October 07, 2012, 09:50:44 PM »

Bob:

I don't have to wait. I use the Docs' computers when they aren't looking. Oops - time for meds, gotta run.