Hello and has anybody tried the Americas Test Kitchen NY pizza?

[Chicago Bob]

Are you working with a tall sided cast iron pan?

[siouxerbrewer]

What were your toppings?  Did you refrigerate the cheese before loading?  Use cubed instead of shredded?  Really makes a difference.

I was able borrow a pizza stone from my mom so I baked the pizza on that. I preheated the oven with the pizza stone in it for about 30-45 minutes before sliding the pizza on it.  The cheese was shredded and it was not refrigerated.  I let the sauce and cheese warm up to room temperature before building the pizzas.  I topped the pizza dough with a small amount of sauce, fresh basil leaves, shredded Mozzarella (room temperature), and crumbled Gorgonzola cheese (also at room temperature).  Do you think that is the problem?  Should I refrigerate the cheese next time?  Also, can I partially bake the pizza dough before adding the toppings?

[Chicago Bob]

No no..don't go getting crazy here sioux, do not par bake that crust. Room temp cheese should be OK . Lets just lower your stone down a rack and pre heat the stone a 'lil longer. Sounds good that you have success launching your pie's so I think we can get you right in a expidient manner. Hang in there...

[siouxerbrewer]

Okay I'll try placing the pizza stone lower in the oven.  I started it on the top rack, then moved it down a rack for the second pie with the same results.  I'll try placing the stone on the lowest rack and preheat the oven for an hour next time and will report back.  The dough was pretty good I must say.  I think it would have been better if all of it had some browning to it and a little more crispiness.  I'll try again this week some time.

[Chicago Bob]

Great...that type of pizza will probably do best with your 1 hr. stone pre heat and a lower placement in your oven. You have the right idea friend.     And if all goes well, your bake time will decrease (keep a sharp eye out this next time) and the pizza will have more of the browning/crispness you are wanting. Good luck an don't forget our pics now man... OK 

[petef]

Good point! America's Test Kitchen is one of my favorite cooking shows. They are normally very precise and science oriented. I'm thinking they need to be aware of your concerns. Just now I went to their website and Emailed them about this issue, including a link to this thread. Hopefully I'll get a response and post it here.

---pete---

Ok everyone, I did get a response from America's Test Kitchen. See below. ---pete---


Dear Pete,
Thanks for your e-mail. Here at the Test Kitchen, we weigh our dry ingredients (flour, sugar, etc.) to get the most precise measurement. We understand that many at home cooks don't have kitchen scales to do so. Therefore we include in our recipe ingredient lists the cup measurement equivalents for an ingredients' weight.
I hope this helps to answer your question.
Happy cooking,
Rachel

[pizzaneer]

At risk of sounding snooty, I don't find their response sufficient.  For the many reasons already cited, weight beats volume for precision hands down.

It's too bad they don't have more of an educational attitude.  They are reaching a wide audience that could benefit.
 

[petef]

At risk of sounding snooty, I don't find their response sufficient.  For the many reasons already cited, weight beats volume for precision hands down.

It's too bad they don't have more of an educational attitude.  They are reaching a wide audience that could benefit.
 

I agree. It seems to me they didn't answer the question or they didn't fully understand the issue. The issue being an inconsistency of the flour ingredient when using a measuring cup vs measuring by weight. I have not replied back to them yet. I'm still trying to figure out what to say that could be beneficial to their show and their viewing audience.

Perhaps they should have a segment on their show that demonstrates how to properly measure flour using a measuring cup so that it matches the target weight.

---pete---

[Pete-zza]

Perhaps they should have a segment on their show that demonstrates how to properly measure flour using a measuring cup so that it matches the target weight.

pete,

King Arthur has such a video. It is at http://how2heroes.com/videos/dessert-and-baked-goods/bakers-tip-measuring-flour.

Peter

[buceriasdon]

And that is the weight that KA uses in their recipes and their volume to weight comparison table.  You can't use that method if 5.5 ounces is the target but these other sites don't tell you that.
Don

[Pete-zza]

And that is the weight that KA uses in their recipes and their volume to weight comparison table.  You can't use that method if 5.5 ounces is the target but these other sites don't tell you that.

Don,

You are absolutely correct. However, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for things to change.

Peter

[buceriasdon]

And I don't see things changing soon either Peter. But It does give me an excuse to use such hyperbole as in message 2.
Don

[siouxerbrewer]

I'm gonna make a few batches of dough tonight for pizza's on Wednesday.  I'll make one dough with my sourdough starter and one dough with commercial yeast.  I'll report back with pictures!

[siouxerbrewer]

I made the dough tonight and I think I just confirmed the importance of measuring by weight vs volume.  I was VERY careful to make sure the measurements were accurate tonight and I noticed that the dough was not nearly as sticky as last time.  I don't think I was careful enough last time with my measurements, although I doubt they were off by much (parallax error with liquid volume measurements).  I made one batch of dough with commercial yeast and one batch with a sourdough starter instead of yeast.  I'm going to let it cold ferment until Tuesday or Wednesday and I'll report back with my results.

[dwighttsharpe]

pete,

King Arthur has such a video. It is at http://how2heroes.com/videos/dessert-and-baked-goods/bakers-tip-measuring-flour.

Peter

Fairly certain that I have seen such a video(from ATK/CI), and also read their explanation as to how their flour measures/weighs in at least one of their cook books(borrowed from the library).

Also, almost all of their recipes list the volume and weight measures, typically, for flour. At least for things like breads, etc.

[buceriasdon]

Dwight, On the ATK website, they do not tell you their method to measure a cup of flour by volume. If you don't measure volume as they do, how can you duplicate their recipe correctly? You can't. Happy Homemaker shouldn't have to check out a book or locate a video(that maybe exists) for an explaination that would take perhaps a short paragraph published along with the recipe. Why should Happy Homemaker have to do more work researching if the idea is to have a one page recipe?
Don

Fairly certain that I have seen such a video(from ATK/CI), and also read their explanation as to how their flour measures/weighs in at least one of their cook books(borrowed from the library).

Also, almost all of their recipes list the volume and weight measures, typically, for flour. At least for things like breads, etc.

[dwighttsharpe]

Dwight, On the website, they do not tell you their method to measure a cup of flour by volume. If you don't measure as they do, how can you duplicate their recipe correctly? You can't.
Don

This is from their website, and is in the format I usually see their recipes listed:

"Makes two 13-inch pizzas...

Ingredients
Dough
    3cups (16 1/2 ounces) bread flour, plus more for work surface (see note)..."

[buceriasdon]

Dwight, If you go to King Arthur's site one cup flour weighs 4.25 ounces, not 5.5 ounces that ATK calls out but doesn't bother to explain their method. That's a huge difference percentage wise with absolutely no explanation or instructions, how is that helpfull or educational? Please, if you can locate their method on the site, post it's URL. For KA:
 http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipe/measuring-flour.html
Very easy to locate on their site
Don
Aha! I did finally locate a mention of how ATK approaches volume for solids: there's a different cup for every amount. Dry ingredients and wet ingredients are also measured differently. The test kitchen measures the dry sort by dipping the cup into the ingredient, scooping a heaping cupful, then sweeping across the cup with a spatula (or the flat side of a knife) until the contents are level with the top of the cup—a method referred to as "dip and sweep".
So if using ATK bread recipe use the deep and sweep, yes as mentioned before in this thread.

This is from their website, and is in the format I usually see their recipes listed:

"Makes two 13-inch pizzas...

Ingredients
Dough
    3cups (16 1/2 ounces) bread flour, plus more for work surface (see note)..."

[AimlessRyan]

Even if you measure one cup of flour exactly how they told you they do it (if they even bothered to tell you how they do it), you will end up with AT LEAST a slightly different amount of flour than they ended up with. Similarly, if you measure one cup of flour precisely the same way every time you measure one cup of flour, you will always end up with AT LEAST a slightly different amount of flour with every cup of flour you measure.

The flour quantity disparity could be at least 10%, even if you're very careful to measure exactly how they measure; even if you are careful to measure the same way every time.

When you measure by weight, 16.5 oz of flour is 16.5 oz of flour. Every time.

[siouxerbrewer]

I made these pizzas again last night and they turned out INCREDIBLE.  I have been trying to make pizza that tasted like this for a few months now without success.  The dough with the commercial yeast was not stretched out as much as the sourdough, but I preferred the slightly thicker crust even though the flavor and texture of the sourdough was significantly better.  I preheated the oven to 550 degrees with the pizza stone on the lowest rack for just over 1 hour.  The pizza's cooked in about 8 minutes and they turned out great.  I think these pizzas were as good as or better than most pizza out (for my tastes). Thank you guys for all of you help and suggestions.  Now I need to figure out weather to buy a ceramic pizza stone or get a large cast iron pizza skillet (bigger than my 12" frying skillet).  Any suggestions?  While I still have my mom's pizza stone I'm probably going to do a side by side comparison in my cast iron skillet. If I do I'll report back.  The pizza on the left was fermented with commercial ADY and the one on the right was fermented with my sourdough starter.