Comments on this design for LBE

[scott123]

Joking aside, if this forum did have a DIY burner expert who understood everything there is to know about pipe burners and the safety behind them, it would be an incredibly invaluable addition.  This is the second time this year we're hitting this wall.

[buceriasdon]

I agree, don't proceed, it appears you don't really have a DIY mentality or the necessary fortitude to be an inventor. If you are so easily swayed by the naysayers, oh my, you'll blow yourself up, blah, blah, and don't have a lick of common sense or any confidence in yourself, then quit. I won't stand in your way. A propane burner is not rocket science and a multitude of people have built gas fired contraptions here and throughout the world and didn't blow themselves up. Go to any of the beer maker blogs concerning homemade burners you'll find people more than willing to help with a design, only here will you find such negativity that is not helpful. Here if you can't buy it off the shelf, then it's not safe. Nonsense and to prove it I will build a similar burner as I have done many times in the past as have others.
Don

This I was gonna do. Would there be anything else I need to check other than leaks?
I'm not sure now if I'll go ahead with this project or not.

[Chicago Bob]

Yep I've been using Google and finding some helpful information.

Hadn't thought of having to light the sections separately but it makes sense, not a big deal though. I have an old BBQ that I can take parts off of, maybe I can even salvage the starter. My original plan was to take a single length of pipe and bend it, but I have no idea how I would do that.

This is the OP's 3rd post early on in this thread. I quickly assesed that he would be in over his head. Yet, at no point did I say "stop!". I do stand on my statement that there is more to this than meets the eye.
I KNOW that it is not rocket science. I also KNOW what it is like to have fire on you. The following is just a small bit of information that relates to proper  DIY pipe burner making....

As the PTFE tape industry evolved into more products they adopted a standardized color code.

WHITE- Single density tape to be used as a thread sealant on NPT (National Pipe Taper) threads which are equal to or less than 3/8".

YELLOW-Double density "Gas tape" suitable for NPT threads equal to or greater than 1/2" but not more than 2"

Red- Triple density tape suitable for NPT threads equal to or greater than 1/2" but not more than 2". (NOTE-The package is a red spool with a red cover ring and plainly labeled 'triple density", but the tape itself appears as a pale pink color).

GREEN TAPE- Listed as "OXY/MED tape"-certified oil free to be used on lines conveying oxygen and some specified medical gasses.

COPPER TAPE- Contains copper granules and is certified as a mechanical thread lubricant but is not certified as a thread sealant.

[pizzaneer]

I agree, don't proceed, it appears you don't really have a DIY mentality or the necessary fortitude to be an inventor. If you are so easily swayed by the naysayers, oh my, you'll blow yourself up, blah, blah, and don't have a lick of common sense or any confidence in yourself, then quit. I won't stand in your way. A propane burner is not rocket science and a multitude of people have built gas fired contraptions here and throughout the world and didn't blow themselves up. Go to any of the beer maker blogs concerning homemade burners you'll find people more than willing to help with a design, only here will you find such negativity that is not helpful. Here if you can't buy it off the shelf, then it's not safe. Nonsense and to prove it I will build a similar burner as I have done many times in the past as have others.
Don

Standing with you in your corner, united against the naysayers!  C'mon, it's really not that complicated.  There's a reason you can buy a tabletop propane grill for under $20 at grocery stores...

[kickz28]

I agree, don't proceed, it appears you don't really have a DIY mentality or the necessary fortitude to be an inventor.

Well I wouldn't say that. Quite the opposite. I am a homebrewer, but so far I've been OK with only using a turkey fryer for my burner. Other DIY things that I do:
- built approx. 10 electric guitars from scratch
- built a couple of tube amps
- like I said, been brewing for many years and most of my equipment is DIY
- do most of the renovations in my home myself
- built all of my computers myself
- surely other things that I can't think of right now

I know I am capable of building a custom burner, but I also know that it might be dangerous, that's why I am getting information and learning about them before actually doing it. In my opinion, that's the best and safest way to actually start a DIY project.

[kickz28]

I do stand on my statement that there is more to this than meets the eye.

This is the information that I'm trying to get. The stuff that is "more than meets the eye"

[Jet_deck]

When I travel to Canada, can I sample the goods ?

[kickz28]

When I travel to Canada, can I sample the goods ?

Sure, PM me if you come to Ottawa. I always have a couple of beers on tap (in my DIY kegerator  )

[Chicago Bob]

Standing with you in your corner, united against the naysayers!  C'mon, it's really not that complicated.  There's a reason you can buy a tabletop propane grill for under $20 at grocery stores...

Yeah...and there also once was a time when you could  buy a $1,200 Pinto automobile off a dealers showroom floor..... 

[scott123]

A propane burner is not rocket science and a multitude of people have built gas fired contraptions here and throughout the world and didn't blow themselves up.

Don, people HAVE blown themselves up.  That's the problem.

http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51291

I'm not saying 'nay,' I'm just saying be careful and do your homework.  I really think there's more to this than just drilling holes in a pipe, attaching a regulator, turning on the gas and lighting a match. If there were someone online with experience building high BTU pipe burners, I'd feel better about it, but all the pipe burners I've seen are pretty low BTU.

[shuboyje]

Ok home and at the computer.

Like I said before, I really think this design would struggle to get to temperature and would take a very long time to do so.  There simply is nothing directing heat at the hearth to heat the mass.  Putting the heat next to it like proposed all the heat will rise, the only thing heating the hearth will be very indirect hear from radiation and convection.  

I've got an idea I've been sitting on for a while, and I think this is the time to bring it up.  I personally think a directional burner(like I have posted links to building many times) on a pivot is a great solution for a single burner gas oven for home use.  For heat up the burner is pointed down at the hearth and blasting it directly with heat.  Once you have stored a bunch of energy in the thermal mass of the hearth stone and brought it up to temperature the burner is pivoted up where it will heat the top stone and provide hot convective flame like a wood fired oven.  If the hearth temp drops(not sure it would) you simply recharge it and keep going between pies.  Again I have added a crude drawing of the idea.

As for the safety concerns, I don't see where there is any more then with an LBE which are discussed daily here.  You are pumping explosive gases into a enclosed chamber.  Explosion is always a risk, but I've never seen an LBE built with a flame failure device and nobody flinches at that.

[Chicago Bob]

As for the safety concerns, I don't see where there is any more then with an LBE which are discussed daily here.  You are pumping explosive gases into a enclosed chamber.  Explosion is always a risk, but I've never seen an LBE built with a flame failure device and nobody flinches at that.

Your idea looks promising.
Safety concerns/talk is being expressed on this thread towards a beginner...please stay on topic.

[scott123]

Jeff, the Drago burner heats the hearth with radiation that's a lot further away than what we're talking about here. It's incredibly inefficient and time consuming to use radiation to heat a hearth, but with enough BTUs it's entirely feasible.

That being said, I like your idea.  My only concern would be that, with this kind of single flame burner, the hearth would have hot spots that would be exponentially hotter than the cool areas.  You could add a rest period for the hearth to even out (for cordierite that could translate into as long as 30 minutes), but I think there's a more elegant approach.  I still like the all metal lazy susan under the hearth idea.  Another approach could be a hearth sandwich. The same way aluminum quickly spreads out the heat in cladded cookware, you could sandwich a layer of steel between thin cordierite stones. Another way might be grooves on the pivot that set different angles to the hearth- 5 minutes hitting the closest point on the hearth, then change the angle further out for 5 more minutes- and so on and so on.   By the time the flame is heating the outer most edge, the entire stone should be relatively evenly heated.

Btw, does one need to build a burner for this?  How about one of these?

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200203874_200203874

[shuboyje]

Don't take what I said the wrong way Bob, I think it's great that safety is being brought up, I have been the one voicing the same concerns many times both here and at fornobravo.  My point is simply that although there are safety concerns that should be taken seriously, they are no more so then those with an LBE, and beginners build LBE's all the time without those concerns ever being voiced.  The LBE thread is actually more dangerous because if you read it you can build an LBE from the information it holds without ever needing to ask a question, so countless "beginners" can build these ovens without anyone here ever knowing they exist, let alone explain the safety concerns to them.  The original LBE design was fairly safe due to the use of the grills original top vent, but once they went to the side vent configuration most use now you have a potentially explosive situation just like most other gas ovens.

Interesting stuff on the teflon tape, I'm gonna have to pay more attention around the jobsite and see what they are using, all I recall is the classic white tape in a blue container.  My (minimal)training on the topic was that the tapes only function was to act as a lubricant so the threads could be tighter and the natural function of the tapered thread pattern could be more effective.  Was I lied too? lol  

Your idea looks promising.
Safety concerns/talk is being expressed on this thread towards a beginner...please stay on topic.

[shuboyje]

I'm curious myself what type of temperature gradiant you would see.  I'm not so sure it would be any different then you see in a wood fired oven.  A couple turns and you might be good.  If not I think the options you mention are feasible. 

My $20 harbor freight weed burner was actually what began my thoughts about this idea.  So long as the burners air inlets where outside the oven it would probably work, but I do think a home built burner with a smaller diameter longer pipe would be a better fit for a small oven.

[buceriasdon]

One of several sites calling out the use of teflon tape with propane fittings. I assumed this was common knowledge.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5984877_do-seal-propane-fittings_.html
Proper use of teflon tape:
http://yarchive.net/house/teflon_tape.html
However if you have acess to pipe dope by all means use it, I don't.
Don

[Jet_deck]

All seriousnes aside, and having slept on it, I agree with Jeff.  There is no way that the burner at hearth level is going to heat the floor.  The top stone/steel will be responsible for 90% of the heat directed to the floor.

$.02

[buceriasdon]

+1

All seriousnes aside, and having slept on it, I agree with Jeff.  There is no way that the burner at hearth level is going to heat the floor.  The top stone/steel will be responsible for 90% of the heat directed to the floor.

$.02

[scott123]

The top stone/steel will be responsible for 90% of the heat directed to the floor.

That's exactly what I'm saying, Gene. Burners heat the ceiling, radiation from the ceiling heats the floor.  Did you see the video I posted?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GcdILpqWZo" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GcdILpqWZo</a>

The drago heats the ceiling and the radiation from the ceiling heats the floor.  All you need is a big enough flame and that floor will have no problem hitting the temp you need.

I'll put any amount of money on this  

[Jet_deck]

Yes. Scotty, the Drago is a monster burner.  We will need a good mass and insulation in the ceiling to catch and radiate the heat downward.  Your money is safe with me.