Author Topic: Comments on this design for LBE (Read 2009 times)

kickz28 · « **on:** August 25, 2012, 02:41:17 PM »

Hey guys,

I just bought an 18.5 inch Weber kettle with the intention of converting it to a LBE.

I read the entire LBE thread and a lot of people seem to have great results, but also a lot of people seem to have a hard time getting the top heat that they want.

So before cutting my grill up (I paid 115 for it here in Canada, not 40 off craigslist!), I got to thinking and was wondering if anyone had thought of and/or tried to build a custom shaped propane burner that instead of being under the kettle, would be inside the kettle around the pizza. I'm thinking something like a 3/4 circle burner.

My idea is that the heat source would be on the same level as the pizza (like a WFO), so it should be easier to get the top heat needed to cook it properly.

I attached a drawing of what I have in mind to make it easier to understand.

Does this seem feasible? It would be my first time building a propane burner, but from the research that I've done, it seems to be relatively straight forward.

I would love to hear your comments about this before I actually build it. Any reason why this is a stupid idea or why it might not work?

Thanks

buceriasdon · « **Reply #1 on:** August 25, 2012, 02:53:33 PM »

Nice, Stone in the lid?
Don

kickz28 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 25, 2012, 02:58:54 PM »

Actually, the image I posted is the bottom half, but yeah I'd probably put a stone in the lid too (or maybe metal), haven't really thought of that yet.

pizzaneer · « **Reply #3 on:** August 25, 2012, 03:48:21 PM »

Don't see a single thing wrong with the concept. But you should really just go ahead and get a round kiln shelf that completely fills the grill. Pop a top stone on that, cut out the side of the dome for launch and recovery (or use a kettle pizza insert) and awaay you go. You're basically making a tiny MB gas deck oven at that point.

Looking forward to your future posts. Please stick with it, it sounds cool!

kickz28 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 25, 2012, 04:00:29 PM »

Quote from: pizzaneer on August 25, 2012, 03:48:21 PM

Don't see a single thing wrong with the concept. But you should really just go ahead and get a round kiln shelf that completely fills the grill. Pop a top stone on that, cut out the side of the dome for launch and recovery (or use a kettle pizza insert) and awaay you go. You're basically making a tiny MB gas deck oven at that point.

Looking forward to your future posts. Please stick with it, it sounds cool!

Thanks! I think I'll give it a try. Unfortunately, I don't think I can find the venturi locally, so I might buy one here:
http://www.cajunshoppe.com/cast2.htm "premium venturi only"

Anyone have an idea for an alternative?

Also, has anyone built a drilled tube burner before? Is it as simple as it looks?

Thanks

buceriasdon · « **Reply #5 on:** August 25, 2012, 04:29:02 PM »

That's not a bad price for the venturi and jet, I've seen others on the internet that were more. A google search for homemade grill/propane burners etc. will yield quite a few hits as they are quite easy to build. You most likely will have to light each burner section as the flame won't jump across your couplers but that's no big deal. A drill press will make the drilling of the 1/16" holes much easier. I predict you will have to assemble the burner parts insuring they are good and tight, lay out your holes and punch the drill hole location so the drill bit doesn't wander. I have also seen burners that were simply slit and they seem to work well but I have no personal experience with those. Two rows of holes along the sides is customary.
Don

kickz28 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 25, 2012, 04:50:54 PM »

Quote from: buceriasdon on August 25, 2012, 04:29:02 PM

That's not a bad price for the venturi and jet, I've seen others on the internet that were more. A google search for homemade grill/propane burners etc. will yield quite a few hits as they are quite easy to build. You most likely will have to light each burner section as the flame won't jump across your couplers but that's no big deal. A drill press will make the drilling of the small holes much easier. I predict you will have to assemble the burner parts insuring they are good and tight, lay out your holes and punch the drill hole location so the drill bit doesn't wander. I have also seen burners that were simply slit and they seem to work well but I have no personal experience with those.
Don

Yep I've been using Google and finding some helpful information.

Hadn't thought of having to light the sections separately but it makes sense, not a big deal though. I have an old BBQ that I can take parts off of, maybe I can even salvage the starter. My original plan was to take a single length of pipe and bend it, but I have no idea how I would do that.

Jet_deck · « **Reply #7 on:** August 25, 2012, 04:54:51 PM »

Quote from: kickz28 on August 25, 2012, 04:00:29 PM

... Unfortunately, I don't think I can find the venturi locally...

Canadian Tire Doesn't sell turkey fryer burners? Here is another online source:http://www.tejassmokers.com/castironburners.htm

I have built 2 burners one was the "slit" type Don was telling about. You are correct in buying the venturi, it is what makes the whole deal work.

Here is a link for the pipe burner (not mine) http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?28224-pipe-burner-build-instructions

I believe your idea has merit, but only if there is a stone in the lid.

buceriasdon · « **Reply #8 on:** August 25, 2012, 05:01:43 PM »

Jet Deck wrote: I believe your idea has merit, but only if there is a stone in the lid.
Yeppers.
Don

Jet_deck · « **Reply #9 on:** August 25, 2012, 05:06:34 PM »

Traditionally the holes would be facing down, but I don't see that this application warrants it.

kickz28 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 25, 2012, 05:15:32 PM »

Quote from: Jet_deck on August 25, 2012, 04:54:51 PM

Canadian Tire Doesn't sell turkey fryer burners? Here is another online source:http://www.tejassmokers.com/castironburners.htm

I have built 2 burners one was the "slit" type Don was telling about. You are correct in buying the venturi, it is what makes the whole deal work.

Here is a link for the pipe burner (not mine) http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?28224-pipe-burner-build-instructions

I believe your idea has merit, but only if there is a stone in the lid.

Thanks for the info!

Canadian Tire does sell turkey fryers, but the burner is usually 1 piece with the burner, so I'd have to cut it off and thread it. At least that's the case with my turkey fryer and all the others that I seen online.

(like this: http://www.turkey-fryers.com/images/bcbg10_cast_iron_propane_cast_burner.jpg)

The link you posted is one of the ones I was looking at. He doesn't use a real venturi though, just a cap with holes. It will be easier to adjust the flame properly with a real one.

My intention is to put a stone in the lid... but you don't think metal will work like some of the people use in the LBE thread?

scott123 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 25, 2012, 05:16:00 PM »

A few thoughts.

First, making a burner may seem easy enough, but there are major safety issues involved. There's also, I believe, a great deal of difference between the burner making videos on youtube and the kind of BTUs that you're going to need for this. Just because the flame is closer to the pizza, doesn't mean that the BTUs can be considerably less than a traditional LBE setup. A high BTU DIY burner could involve more holes, bigger holes, a higher pressure valve, or all of the above. I have no idea. I am relatively certain that as you move away from simple low BTU burners to high BTU, safety becomes a bigger factor. Proceed very carefully and do plenty of research.

Secondly, based up the dimension of the stone in your diagram, the stone will be 14". For Neapolitan pizza, you may settle on something smaller, but you will want the option for doing 14" pizzas and launching 14" pizzas on a 14" stone is close to impossible. If you are going to take the time to do this, I'd really see if you can track down a larger weber. Everything should fit a lot more comfortably.

Third, I think you're going to want to point the holes slightly towards the pizza, at an angle, rather than pointing straight up.

Lastly, the arc of the burner doesn't need to be any more than 180 degrees. You don't need to fill that much of the circle with burners- a semi-circle is sufficient.

buceriasdon · « **Reply #12 on:** August 25, 2012, 05:17:01 PM »

Gene, I'm not sure I understand. All the low pressure burners I've seen in grills and the like are on the upper most on both sides.
Don

Quote from: Jet_deck on August 25, 2012, 05:06:34 PM

Traditionally the holes would be facing down, but I don't see that this application warrants it.

Jet_deck · « **Reply #13 on:** August 25, 2012, 05:21:38 PM »

I think metal would work, it needs to be pretty close to the pizza though. I was just thinking about the metal oxidizing/ rusting and dropping little gritty things in the pizza.

Jet_deck · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2012, 05:24:27 PM »

Quote from: buceriasdon on August 25, 2012, 05:17:01 PM

Gene, I'm not sure I understand. All the low pressure burners I've seen in grills and the like are on the upper most on both sides.
Don

Don for boiling water in a pot or cooking in a skillet it usually does look like the one you have. I had just looked at that Hobart thread, using the pip burner for a log lighter -or- actually cooking with the burner, they dont want wood stuff or food or grease falling down and plugging the holes. I don't think well see that here.

Jet_deck · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2012, 05:27:35 PM »

Quote from: kickz28 on August 25, 2012, 05:15:32 PM

He doesn't use a real venturi though, just a cap with holes.

I called the guy at tejas one time and asked the correct size venturi and he told me what it was. I can't remember it, but it is a "letter size" like A or N or something. A machine shop could drill you one in a piece of brass for pretty cheap. But it has got to be perfect or it won't burn correctly and it will make you sick to smell the exhaust. Don't ask how I know this.

kickz28 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2012, 05:33:23 PM »

Quote from: Jet_deck on August 25, 2012, 05:27:35 PM

I called the guy at tejas one time and asked the correct size venturi and he told me what it was. I can't remember it, but it is a "letter size" like A or N or something. A machine shop could drill you one in a piece of brass for pretty cheap. But it has got to be perfect or it won't burn correctly and it will make you sick to smell the exhaust. Don't ask how I know this.

Sounds like it's easier just to order one!

buceriasdon · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2012, 05:35:44 PM »

Shoot, For 25 bucks with the jet included and threaded ready to mount I wouln't DIY the venturi. Here in Mexico I can buy them for maybe 5 dollars.
Don

kickz28 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 25, 2012, 05:38:46 PM »

Quote from: scott123 on August 25, 2012, 05:16:00 PM

A few thoughts.

First, making a burner may seem easy enough, but there are major safety issues involved. There's also, I believe, a great deal of difference between the burner making videos on youtube and the kind of BTUs that you're going to need for this. Just because the flame is closer to the pizza, doesn't mean that the BTUs can be considerably less than a traditional LBE setup. A high BTU DIY burner could involve more holes, bigger holes, a higher pressure valve, or all of the above. I have no idea. I am relatively certain that as you move away from simple low BTU burners to high BTU, safety becomes a bigger factor. Proceed very carefully and do plenty of research.

Secondly, based up the dimension of the stone in your diagram, the stone will be 14". For Neapolitan pizza, you may settle on something smaller, but you will want the option for doing 14" pizzas and launching 14" pizzas on a 14" stone is close to impossible. If you are going to take the time to do this, I'd really see if you can track down a larger weber. Everything should fit a lot more comfortably.

Third, I think you're going to want to point the holes slightly towards the pizza, at an angle, rather than pointing straight up.

Lastly, the arc of the burner doesn't need to be any more than 180 degrees. You don't need to fill that much of the circle with burners- a semi-circle is sufficient.

1. You're right, I'm not quite ready to build this yet, although from what I can tell so far, it seems pretty straight forward. I'm hoping someone with more experience chimes in with safety precautions.

2. My diagram is not really to scale. Looking at the kettle and the stone, I will be able to fit my stone (15") in there with plenty of room for the burner. I always make 12" pizzas so this should be fine. Pretty much the same as people who use the 18.5" kettle to build a LBE.

3. Good idea. I will give this a try.

4. You're probably right on this one. Maybe instead of using 5 six inch pipes, I'll just use 3. I'm sure I'll have to turn the pizza anyway.

Thanks for the comments!

kickz28 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 25, 2012, 05:40:45 PM »

Quote from: buceriasdon on August 25, 2012, 05:35:44 PM

Shoot, For 25 bucks with the jet included and threaded ready to mount I wouln't DIY the venturi. Here in Mexico I can buy them for maybe 5 dollars.
Don

What is the jet? Also, I only found one model online (the one I linked)... Where did you get that one you posted? Maybe I can find an online source!