Author Topic: Comments on this design for LBE  (Read 6887 times)

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buceriasdon

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2012, 06:05:23 PM »
Stone in the lid as a heat collector. Dang, Wish I was farther along with my lastest kettle with a round burner mounted in the top lid.Oh well.
Don


scott123

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2012, 06:07:47 PM »
Here I come again with a Dissenting opinion, lol.  I think the proposed design will take forever to get the stone to temperature.  Commercial sized ovens designed like this with pipe burners are notirious for extremely long heat up times from cold.  I have a different idea I will post when I'm at a computer and not on a phone.



As long as the BTUs are high enough, and there is a ceiling in place, this should perform similarly to an Avanzini Drago.

Offline kickz28

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2012, 06:08:17 PM »
Stone in the lid as a heat collector. Dang, Wish I was farther along with my lastest kettle with a round burner mounted in the top lid.Oh well.
Don

Do you have a thread about this?

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2012, 06:13:58 PM »
I'm aware of that, and that's why I wanna take all the safety precautions. That's why I'm posting here before going ahead with the build. Ive been reading about building burners for a couple of days now, but didn't find much information on safety. Any advice?
I'll give you some advice....fogetaboutit!!   :o
Seriously though, just procede with much caution....take baby steps and make sure you have an adjustable  regulator that you can have dialed waaay back any time you go to initially test out any DIY contraption/mod store bought, whatever...
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2012, 06:15:13 PM »


As long as the BTUs are high enough, and there is a ceiling in place, this should perform similarly to an Avanzini Drago.
Insulation situation...up top?
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2012, 06:44:09 PM »
Forno bravo uses the dragon in their gas ovens.  Not sure if they still do, but in the past the recommended a wood gas combo for ovens that will be heated from cold for this exact reason.  Commercial and home a different animals, a commercial oven never fully cools.


As long as the BTUs are high enough, and there is a ceiling in place, this should perform similarly to an Avanzini Drago.
-Jeff

scott123

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2012, 07:01:00 PM »
Forno bravo uses the dragon in their gas ovens.  Not sure if they still do, but in the past the recommended a wood gas combo for ovens that will be heated from cold for this exact reason.  Commercial and home a different animals, a commercial oven never fully cools.

We're not talking about heating that much mass here. This won't be ready instantaneously, but, with enough BTUs, it could be ready in as little as an hour.  Everything hinges on the BTUs.  If, say, a single Drago burner preheats a commercial oven in 8 hours., if you double the burner, the pre-heat time shrinks.  If you remove 90% of the mass, the pre-heat time shrinks even more.  I'm not saying that this DIY burner will have twice the BTUs of a Drago, but, when you look at it from a perspective of BTUs to thermal mass, it will, relatively speaking, be the equivalent. It's a lot of heat going into a small amount of mass.

scott123

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2012, 07:10:35 PM »
Insulation situation...up top?

The ceiling stone could be insulated, but I don't think it's necessary.  This isn't re-inventing the wheel here.  It's just an LBE with, rather than partial deflection, it's complete deflection. Quite a few LBEs have been successful with heavy deflection. This only takes it a tiny bit past that. There's very little difference between a lot of heat above and a little below (heavy deflection) and a lot of heat above and no heat below (complete deflection)

Edit: I said 'rarely' rather than 'rather.'
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 07:36:38 PM by scott123 »

Offline kickz28

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2012, 07:11:13 PM »
I'll give you some advice....fogetaboutit!!   :o
Seriously though, just procede with much caution....take baby steps and make sure you have an adjustable  regulator that you can have dialed waaay back any time you go to initially test out any DIY contraption/mod store bought, whatever...

Yeah, I'm feeling increasingly uncomfortable about this project! Maybe I'll just do the standard LBE and later decide to add a simple propane burner from a BBQ beside the stone for extra top heat...


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2012, 07:27:25 PM »
Yeah, I'm feeling increasingly uncomfortable about this project! Maybe I'll just do the standard LBE and later decide to add a simple propane burner from a BBQ beside the stone for extra top heat...
I like the way you think....if you are hesitant at all about this, then that means that now is not the time to procede.  Take your time an research it well. There is more to the type of burner( you are contemplating) than what meets the eye...especially considering the psi's that would probably be required to make it perform in the BTU range your appplication dictates.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

buceriasdon

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2012, 07:34:38 PM »
After you have assembled your burner, hoses, regulators, valves and assemble the joints using teflon tape, it's time to soap test. Mix up some liquid dish soap with a little bit of water and turn off the valve to the burner and turn on the tank. Methodically going from one joint to the next brush the joint with soap and observe if bubbling occurs. If there is bubbling then shut off the tank and tighten the joint. Repeat until no bubbling can be observed. That's pretty much it.
Don

Offline kickz28

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2012, 08:37:56 PM »
After you have assembled your burner, hoses, regulators, valves and assemble the joints using teflon tape, it's time to soap test. Mix up some liquid dish soap with a little bit of water and turn off the valve to the burner and turn on the tank. Methodically going from one joint to the next brush the joint with soap and observe if bubbling occurs. If there is bubbling then shut off the tank and tighten the joint. Repeat until no bubbling can be observed. That's pretty much it.
Don

This I was gonna do. Would there be anything else I need to check other than leaks?

I'm not sure now if I'll go ahead with this project or not.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2012, 08:42:47 PM »
This I was gonna do. Would there be anything else I need to check other than leaks?


Yes, your faith in God and whether your last life insurance premium payment was paid on time.  ;)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline kickz28

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2012, 08:45:47 PM »
Yes, your faith in God and whether your last life insurance premium payment was paid on time.  ;)

I'll have to read if it covers blowing myself up trying to make some good pizza   :D

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2012, 08:54:26 PM »
Well, worse things have happened to people even trying to make bad pizza. If you have ever had fire on you then you know exactly what I mean. Just be safe my friend... ;)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

scott123

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2012, 09:18:07 PM »
Joking aside, if this forum did have a DIY burner expert who understood everything there is to know about pipe burners and the safety behind them, it would be an incredibly invaluable addition.  This is the second time this year we're hitting this wall.

buceriasdon

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2012, 09:52:05 PM »
I agree, don't proceed, it appears you don't really have a DIY mentality or the necessary fortitude to be an inventor. If you are so easily swayed by the naysayers, oh my, you'll blow yourself up, blah, blah, and don't have a lick of common sense or any confidence in yourself, then quit. I won't stand in your way. A propane burner is not rocket science and a multitude of people have built gas fired contraptions here and throughout the world and didn't blow themselves up. Go to any of the beer maker blogs concerning homemade burners you'll find people more than willing to help with a design, only here will you find such negativity that is not helpful. Here if you can't buy it off the shelf, then it's not safe. Nonsense and to prove it I will build a similar burner as I have done many times in the past as have others.
Don


This I was gonna do. Would there be anything else I need to check other than leaks?
I'm not sure now if I'll go ahead with this project or not.


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2012, 10:33:36 PM »
Yep I've been using Google and finding some helpful information.

Hadn't thought of having to light the sections separately but it makes sense, not a big deal though. I have an old BBQ that I can take parts off of, maybe I can even salvage the starter. My original plan was to take a single length of pipe and bend it, but I have no idea how I would do that.
This is the OP's 3rd post early on in this thread. I quickly assesed that he would be in over his head. Yet, at no point did I say "stop!". I do stand on my statement that there is more to this than meets the eye.
I KNOW that it is not rocket science. I also KNOW what it is like to have fire on you. The following is just a small bit of information that relates to proper  DIY pipe burner making....

As the PTFE tape industry evolved into more products they adopted a standardized color code.

WHITE- Single density tape to be used as a thread sealant on NPT (National Pipe Taper) threads which are equal to or less than 3/8".

YELLOW-Double density "Gas tape" suitable for NPT threads equal to or greater than 1/2" but not more than 2"

Red- Triple density tape suitable for NPT threads equal to or greater than 1/2" but not more than 2". (NOTE-The package is a red spool with a red cover ring and plainly labeled 'triple density", but the tape itself appears as a pale pink color).

GREEN TAPE- Listed as "OXY/MED tape"-certified oil free to be used on lines conveying oxygen and some specified medical gasses.

COPPER TAPE- Contains copper granules and is certified as a mechanical thread lubricant but is not certified as a thread sealant.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 10:36:05 PM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2012, 10:44:57 PM »
I agree, don't proceed, it appears you don't really have a DIY mentality or the necessary fortitude to be an inventor. If you are so easily swayed by the naysayers, oh my, you'll blow yourself up, blah, blah, and don't have a lick of common sense or any confidence in yourself, then quit. I won't stand in your way. A propane burner is not rocket science and a multitude of people have built gas fired contraptions here and throughout the world and didn't blow themselves up. Go to any of the beer maker blogs concerning homemade burners you'll find people more than willing to help with a design, only here will you find such negativity that is not helpful. Here if you can't buy it off the shelf, then it's not safe. Nonsense and to prove it I will build a similar burner as I have done many times in the past as have others.
Don



Standing with you in your corner, united against the naysayers!  C'mon, it's really not that complicated.  There's a reason you can buy a tabletop propane grill for under $20 at grocery stores...
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline kickz28

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2012, 10:48:21 PM »
I agree, don't proceed, it appears you don't really have a DIY mentality or the necessary fortitude to be an inventor.

Well I wouldn't say that. Quite the opposite. I am a homebrewer, but so far I've been OK with only using a turkey fryer for my burner. Other DIY things that I do:
- built approx. 10 electric guitars from scratch
- built a couple of tube amps
- like I said, been brewing for many years and most of my equipment is DIY
- do most of the renovations in my home myself
- built all of my computers myself
- surely other things that I can't think of right now

I know I am capable of building a custom burner, but I also know that it might be dangerous, that's why I am getting information and learning about them before actually doing it. In my opinion, that's the best and safest way to actually start a DIY project.

Offline kickz28

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2012, 10:51:07 PM »
I do stand on my statement that there is more to this than meets the eye.

This is the information that I'm trying to get. The stuff that is "more than meets the eye"

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2012, 10:54:46 PM »
When I travel to Canada, can I sample the goods ?
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline kickz28

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2012, 10:57:05 PM »
When I travel to Canada, can I sample the goods ?

Sure, PM me if you come to Ottawa. I always have a couple of beers on tap (in my DIY kegerator  :) )

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2012, 11:03:16 PM »
Standing with you in your corner, united against the naysayers!  C'mon, it's really not that complicated.  There's a reason you can buy a tabletop propane grill for under $20 at grocery stores...

Yeah...and there also once was a time when you could  buy a $1,200 Pinto automobile off a dealers showroom floor..... 
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

scott123

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Re: Comments on this design for LBE
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2012, 11:11:36 PM »
A propane burner is not rocket science and a multitude of people have built gas fired contraptions here and throughout the world and didn't blow themselves up.

Don, people HAVE blown themselves up.  That's the problem.

http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51291

I'm not saying 'nay,' I'm just saying be careful and do your homework.  I really think there's more to this than just drilling holes in a pipe, attaching a regulator, turning on the gas and lighting a match. If there were someone online with experience building high BTU pipe burners, I'd feel better about it, but all the pipe burners I've seen are pretty low BTU.


 

pizzapan