Author Topic: What do you think of these "Napoletan" pizzas?.........  (Read 2786 times)

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cornicione54

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Re: What do you think of these "Napoletan" pizzas?.........
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2012, 05:34:32 PM »
Hi Paolo,
there is 2 kinds of bubbles you can have on pizzas. The ones that have a good fermentation show a leopard dots and the others show when the yeast doesn't kick in, which is your case.
Usually you get them on top of the crust and they are from a medium or big size, then the picture of the slice shows that is not cooked and there is no air in the crust.
Ciao I hope next time goes better


All due respect that just isn't true from what I've seen. I've seen both small and large so-called "leopard" spots on pizzas without any correlation between either their size, distribution or how airy the crust is. I've watched small leopard spots form on crusts turning into bigger ones as the pizza is left in the oven longer but with a perfectly airy crust in the final pizza.

Sorry but my conclusion is there is no magic differential between "good" and "bad" leopard spots - you just have to evaluate the pizza as a whole. It's not possible to tell just from looking at "bubbles" whether the pizza is any good. I realise this opinion is seen by many as "negative" and disrespectful and it puts in me in the minority  - but I can't go against what I've seen for myself. I maintain, and have always maintained that the whole "leopard spot"-based analysis is a red herring. I realise I don't have the same credentials as some experts but IMO the truth is always in the final product and I've yet to see the correlation/differential for "leopard spots" and "defective" dough.


cornicione54

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Re: What do you think of these "Napoletan" pizzas?.........
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2012, 05:40:49 PM »
Now if you want to make the argument based on aesthetics or personal "char" preference, then that's a different matter - each to their own.

Offline Carmine D

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Re: What do you think of these "Napoletan" pizzas?.........
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2012, 06:01:05 PM »
Cornicione it's not the look that we are talking about here or preferences on the char or how many bubbles or leoparding it has, if it's good I would eat it no matter how many bubble it has. I'm just saying that we can actually just tell from looking at a pizza if is fermented well or not at all.
When I see those kind of bubbles I cut the pizza and is never cooked.
Just from years of experience and a lot of mistakes when I started this carrier, but you don't have to agree of course.
Have a good one

Offline Mangia Pizza

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Re: What do you think of these "Napoletan" pizzas?.........
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2012, 07:31:09 PM »
Cornicione it's not the look that we are talking about here or preferences on the char or how many bubbles or leoparding it has, if it's good I would eat it no matter how many bubble it has. I'm just saying that we can actually just tell from looking at a pizza if is fermented well or not at all.
When I see those kind of bubbles I cut the pizza and is never cooked.
Just from years of experience and a lot of mistakes when I started this carrier, but you don't have to agree of course.
Have a good one
Hi Paolo,
there is 2 kinds of bubbles you can have on pizzas. The ones that have a good fermentation show a leopard dots and the others show when the yeast doesn't kick in, which is your case.
Usually you get them on top of the crust and they are from a medium or big size, then the picture of the slice shows that is not cooked and there is no air in the crust.
Ciao I hope next time goes better

Ciao Carmine, good to hear your expert opinion......

Just to clarify, these are not my pizzas, well..... (I guess they were mine since I paid for them)... I didn't make them.....

They were from a well review pizzeria in NJ.......

You are correct that the pizzas were doughy and undercooked (see reply 11) so your theory about yeast and leopardization is most likely valid....

I am not ever going back there again, I may just come to LV instead and maybe spend some time and learn from you.....

Arrisentirci.....
Paolo

cornicione54

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Re: What do you think of these "Napoletan" pizzas?.........
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2012, 12:25:29 AM »
Cornicione it's not the look that we are talking about here or preferences on the char or how many bubbles or leoparding it has, if it's good I would eat it no matter how many bubble it has. I'm just saying that we can actually just tell from looking at a pizza if is fermented well or not at all.
When I see those kind of bubbles I cut the pizza and is never cooked.
Just from years of experience and a lot of mistakes when I started this carrier, but you don't have to agree of course.
Have a good one

I think this is along the same lines as the misunderstanding that I had with Marco. I am NOT advocating one way or another regarding preferences for bubbles/leopard spots.

What I AM saying is that leopard spots alone are not a reliable indicator of fermentation. I have seen all manner of leopard spots (big, small, high density, low density) on all manner of crusts (nice and airy, flat and dense, overcooked, just right, undercooked etc.)
Some have gone so far as to suggest there is some differential between "good" and "bad" leopard spots (see other threads). Personally I think they're just a side effect which may OR MAY NOT be an indicator of a defective dough/fermentation. Imho, what you can't do is use them as a reliable gauge of anything.  I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 12:41:55 AM by cornicione54 »

Offline Matthew

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Re: What do you think of these "Napoletan" pizzas?.........
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2012, 06:38:36 AM »
I think this is along the same lines as the misunderstanding that I had with Marco. I am NOT advocating one way or another regarding preferences for bubbles/leopard spots.

What I AM saying is that leopard spots alone are not a reliable indicator of fermentation. I have seen all manner of leopard spots (big, small, high density, low density) on all manner of crusts (nice and airy, flat and dense, overcooked, just right, undercooked etc.)
Some have gone so far as to suggest there is some differential between "good" and "bad" leopard spots (see other threads). Personally I think they're just a side effect which may OR MAY NOT be an indicator of a defective dough/fermentation. Imho, what you can't do is use them as a reliable gauge of anything.  I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I really don't get it.  A professional steps in, offers his opinion & what happens, as always, a hobby pizza maker argues against it.  Carmine already told you that you don't have to agree with it and that it is just his opinion. Why continue to argue it?  The professional opinion being offered is for "everyone's" benefit, maybe we should listen instead of argue.

Matt    
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 10:16:04 AM by Matthew »

Offline satgan

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Re: What do you think of these "Napoletan" pizzas?.........
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2012, 07:01:23 AM »
I really don't get it.  A professional steps in, offers his opinion & what happens, as always a hobby pizza making argues against it.  Carmine already told you that you don't have to agree with it and that it is just his opinion. Why continue to argue it?  The professional opinion being offered it for "everyone's" benefit, maybe we should listen instead of argue.

Matt    

+1

Offline andreguidon

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Re: What do you think of these "Napoletan" pizzas?.........
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2012, 09:30:53 AM »
I really don't get it.  A professional steps in, offers his opinion & what happens, as always, a hobby pizza maker argues against it.  Carmine already told you that you don't have to agree with it and that it is just his opinion. Why continue to argue it?  The professional opinion being offered it for "everyone's" benefit, maybe we should listen instead of argue.

Matt    

+2
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cornicione54

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Re: What do you think of these "Napoletan" pizzas?.........
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2012, 11:08:45 AM »
Oh c'mon that's a bit rough.

I was offering clarification on what I said. Carmine basically thought I was talking about Leopard spots as a preference (read his reply) - which is pretty much the opposite of what I was trying to say.

I'm sorry if it came across as argument but I was clarifying what I said earlier. I'm not trying to have a go at him. Anyway I can tell that my further opinion is not wanted here. My apologies.