Dom DeMarco's - Las Vegas

[bakeshack]

I tried Dom Demarco's Pizzeria in Las Vegas last night.  Apparently, his son, Dom D Jr. is the one in charge of this place.  The pizzeria was designed to target the local clientele more than visitors since it is located about 10 miles from the strip.  You definitely need to know about their history, etc. if you are a visitor to even venture into this area. 

The interior was very nice.  Definitely not your typical NY pizzeria ambiance but since they are in Vegas, I understand why they decided to have a more upscale look. 

We ordered the large 18" pie - half Big Apple (pepperoni, sausage, ham, meatball) and half Cheese.  I was surprised at how underwhelming the flavor of the Big Apple was.  It was loaded with meat but it lacked seasoning somehow.  The cheese pie, however, was very good.  It was definitely well balanced with a nice flavor from the sauce and cheese.  I just realized after eating the cheese pie that the quality of the meat they used on the Big Apple were definitely the culprit.

The crust (rims) and the bottom had a nice color but it was maybe a bit too light for my taste.  I prefer well done pies especially when it comes to NY-style.  Also, the one main thing that I really noticed was how the outer shell of the crust was much thicker than what I would get from my WFO NY pies.   The rims were bordering on getting that dry and chewy texture especially on the outside.  In my WFO pies, I get a paper thin outer shell that shatters when you bite into it.  I am not sure how hot they run their ovens or how long they bake the pies but I am assuming it would be fairly hot (600-650F) and reasonably short (maybe between 5-7 mins) being a NY pie but I'm not really sure?  When I make WFO NY pies, I typically keep the temp at around 650F and keep the bake times between 4.5-5 mins.  For those with much experience, is this a typical difference between NY pies made in a gas oven vs. WFO?  This might be an unfair comparison but I guess I want to find out if it's possible to achieve the same results from a WFO in a commercial gas oven.  It seems like night and day in terms of crust texture.  I would love to try a really hot commercial oven just for comparison.  I know


Marlon




 

[pizzablogger]

From the upskirt shot it looks like the oven is not as hot as the Midwood location.

Looks a lot like the 500°-550°F, 8-10 minute bakes I can easily get down this way (albeit likely with cheese and sauce not as high quality as the Vegas DiFara).

Marlon, keep in mind that the great majority (98%+) of the NY-Style pizzerias, even in NYC, are not hitting the 4-5 minute bakes you are achieving at your home. The dial on the thermostat has sadly crept ever downwards at NY-Style joints over the past 20 years. Pretty much the entire NY-Style of pizza has been relegated to bullsh*#t.

Of course, differences in flour, fermentation regimens, etc would also impact a comparison between your pies and those from a commerical joint, but the bake time is a huge metric....and you would be very hard pressed to find a NY-Style joint matching your 4-5 minute mark.

Thanks for posting pics....some of the first I have seen from the Vegas DiFara endeavor. --K

[scott r]

With all that caputo they are using in the flour blend you really need a hot oven to get any char flavor!   That bears almost no resemblance to the difara I know and love.    Pretty sad.   They would do way better if they just stopped blending flours, and went strictly with domestic.   It also looks like the dough is not proofed properly, and was left to dry out in the ball rising stage.    uggh.....

Yes, all the convection in a WFO gives the outer crisp sensation that you are talking about.        

[bakeshack]

It's a sad thing especially since the people here in the West may think that this is what one would get from a respectable pizzeria in NY.  It's still good compared to what you would get here from other NY-style imitation pizzerias, though, but a far cry from the real thing. 

[scott123]

Nice write up, Marlon.

I wasn't expecting much from this place, and, from the photos, my suspicions seem to be confirmed.

For what it's worth, this is a revolving Fish oven.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12535.msg162646.html#msg162646

I don't care who you are or who you may be related to- once you install one of these ovens, any hopes of making great NY style pizza go out the window. Rotoflexes aren't quite so bad, but it's a similar deal.  These ovens are for sellouts.

[Pete-zza]

Reel or "ferris wheel" type ovens like the Fish, Baxter and Reid ovens are intended to accommodate large volumes of pizzas, as Tom Lehmann notes in his PMQ Think Tank post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=60808#p60808. Those ovens have been used for years in the Metro Chicago area, although they have been replaced in some cases with conveyor ovens. The Papa Gino's chain of pizzas in the Northeast uses the Baxter oven, as I noted at Reply 7 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg75760/topicseen.html#msg75760. The Roto-Flex ovens are often considered an alternative to conveyor ovens from a throughput standpoint but using metal or stone decks. Tony Gemignani uses the Roto-Flex ovens, as does Mack's on the NJ boardwalk. Other users of the Roto-Flex ovens are identified by clicking on OUR CUSTOMERS at http://www.rotoflexoven.com/EXPAGES/ourclients.asp.  Far be it for me to consider users of such ovens as sellouts if they are trying to achieve better quality than can be achieved with conveyor ovens and make a decent profit while doing so.

Peter

[scott123]

Peter, I'm not referring to Chicago, Trenton or American styles, or conveyors. My comment relates to DiFara's, a NY style deck oven establishment, making the switch to a reel oven in a new location, and, in the process, putting out an inferior product. Going from deck to reel (or deck to rotoflex) in order to increase output while sacrificing quality, is selling out.

[Pete-zza]

Peter, I'm not referring to Chicago, Trenton or American styles, or conveyors. My comment relates to DiFara's, a NY style deck oven establishment, making the switch to a reel oven in a new location, and, in the process, putting out an inferior product. Going from deck to reel (or deck to rotoflex) in order to increase output while sacrificing quality, is selling out.

scott123,

As the article at http://vegas.eater.com/archives/2012/05/09/albert-scalleats-fiveyear-pursuit-to-open-dom-demarcos.php notes, it looks like they were trying to reproduce the DiFara's Brooklyn pizza "to a T." I don't know if that is possible with the Fish oven. However, with a 3800-square foot pizzeria seating 100, and maybe in a high-rent area, maybe they had to go to an oven to meet the volume that those numbers imply. If Dom DeMarco decided to license his name to an enterprise such as the one in Vegas to leverage off of the goodwill in his name and cared not about the quality of the pizza, then I would agree that that would constitute selling out. Time will tell whether they will succeed in the Vegas location.

Peter

[Chicago Bob]

Sell out-schmell out...thought the writing was sorta on the wall with the LaGuardia announcement. Greatness (if that's indeed what his pizza is) never carries over easily when you go mess'in with expansion. How old is that guy...what would you do if you were in Dom's dusty 'ol shoes and wanting to go retire somewhere real nice...?

[TXCraig1]

it looks like they were trying to reproduce the DiFara's Brooklyn pizza "to a T." I don't know if that is possible with the Fish oven.

I don't know if the oven will duplicate the pies or not, but I'm thinking they might not use so much oil in the pans as they do at Di Fara - sloshing over the edge in the oven and smoking up the whole place.

[Chicago Bob]

I don't know if the oven will duplicate the pies or not, but I'm thinking they might not use so much oil in the pans as they do at Di Fara - sloshing over the edge in the oven and smoking up the whole place.

They are tinkering with a "refined" Di Fara....for more "refined" locations. Jr. will always have the original location once they finally decide to sell the remaining rights and he gets sick of Vegas....or wherever else they may venture to while the brand is so hot...

[TXCraig1]

They are tinkering with a "refined" Di Fara....for more "refined" locations. Jr. will always have the original location once they finally decide to sell the remaining rights and he gets sick of Vegas....or wherever else they may venture to while the brand is so hot...

What does that have to do with the subject at hand?

If they are not doing it the same way, it's not going to be the same.

[Chicago Bob]

What does that have to do with the subject at hand?

If they are not doing it the same way, it's not going to be the same.

Ummm...somebody or two mentioned/discussed selling out...

[TXCraig1]

Ummm...somebody or two mentioned/discussed selling out...

Sorry - when you quoted me, I thought you were discussing what I wrote about...

[Chicago Bob]

Well, my first sentence was addressing your quote. I believe you are probably correct in that they are using less oil in the pan so as to not smoke up the place. Hence, my reply that they are tinkering with the recipe to make it more acceptable at the new "refined" locations.
The rest was jus psyco-babble....

[scott123]

...it looks like they were trying to reproduce the DiFara's Brooklyn pizza "to a T." I don't know if that is possible with the Fish oven.

I don't know if the oven will duplicate the pies or not...

I've been a very vocal critic of DiFaras regarding their flavorless, fermentation-deprived crusts, but, at least the pizza isn't oven spring deprived from longer bake times.  This Fish oven will never, in a million years, match the bake time on DiFara's oven. If you can't match the bake time, you can't duplicate the pizza.

However, with a 3800-square foot pizzeria seating 100, and maybe in a high-rent area, maybe they had to go to an oven to meet the volume that those numbers imply.

Peter, if they're working with 3800 square feet, then I'd think they would have had the space for another deck oven- or two.  When volume goes up, and you've got the space, you just add more decks. By adding more decks, you don't compromise the quality of your product.

[TXCraig1]

I'll tell you how to make a Di Fara Pie taste great. Stop at Lombardi's along the way. 

[jamie]

interesting thread.

[Chicago Bob]

He's baaaaack!   

[FuocoPizza]

I used to live close to this place, had the pizza a few times. The regular cheese was the best, tried the white pizza and it was drenched in oil.
Could have sworn they used a coal fired oven though? Maybe not. I know Grimaldi's uses coal...and that was not an enjoyable pizza at all.

Honestly, the most memorable NY style pizzas for me have come out of simple Baker's Pride gas ovens.

Best NY pizza in Vegas hands down is in the Cosmopolitan.